Executive Update - Amiga Status Announcement

[Rodney]

AInc are becoming a real business and not just some little pseudo-amateur setup. First they eliminate the threat that XL posed, now they're doing the same to the pegasos. Well, thats just the way big business works. You have to be ruthless.

In my opinion, this move has just killed the pegasos project. There were many who liked the look of the pegasos hardware but wanted OS4 who will now have to buy A1 or Shark hardware. As for the actual future of the PegasOS (OS) - ah, well figure it out yourself. There aren't enough existing Amiga users to support the current market, so I don't see how less than a third of this market could survive on its own. Looks like there is a reason for RS's vicious paranoia after all.

Remember, this is my opinion and not the truth. Feel free to believe it or not, or try to convince me otherwise with good evidence. Flames from anonymous users will simply be ignored. Or made fun of. Preferably the latter.  

Thats a very good point! - Anyone who was planing on getting a pegasos to run AmigaOS4 will either, seperate themselfs from AmigaOS and stay with MorphOS or get the A1 and stay with AmigaOS.

On the other hand, i believe that AmigaOS will be bundled with a ROM. If this ROM could fit into a pegasos, well, those pegasos loving people might still have a change to play with AmigaOS.

Anyhow, some of this does sound a bit dodgy, but im sure this is the way companys like AInc and MS are goign tohave to go, pirating is getting way out of hand, infact, has been for a long long time. Its pretty much what killed the Amiga (i cant count how many games/utilities/apps we had copied :})

[Ivan]

Hi Kronos

>Its not about buying AOS4 but about paying a licence on HW that has nothing
>to do with AInc.

I think it has everything to do with Ainc if anyone wants to sell
something as an "Amiga Computer". And the license isn't on the
hardware anyway. The license is to allow it to run the OS. In short
you can't make Amiga Hardware and market the Amiga name brand without
Amiga's approval. This comes in the form of buying a license to do so.


>The price for a full AOS4 on CSPPC is ~100Euro according
>to Vesalia. That price would be fair for the Pegasos-version.

Agreed. 100% i agree. Totally i agree. Without pause and/or reservation
do i agree.


>AInc didn't help developing the Pegasos and they didn't help the
>Taiwanese developing the TeronCX/Agimmesomenumbers.
>Eyetech decided to sell their product under the AOne name and therefore
>have to pay $xxx to AInc.

Irrelevent. The cost of production is entirely thier affair. If they
want to sell the Amiga name they will have to buy a license to do so.
Eyetech did it and at a real nice price. However, there are a few
baseline specs you need to meet before being an "Amiga System".
Eyetech did this quite well and at a good price. All the current
PPC Amiga accelerators will be able to run OS4 and they are negotiating
the final bits as we speak. Hyperion are also doing the work on
that hardware as well. The OS will expect a few things, PPC cpu, usb,
etc, etc... The license agreement outlines those and allows hardware
makers to create compatables that wont die as soon as they try to boot
with the OS.


>BPlan decided to sell their board mainly to industrial costumers and a few
>Amiga-fans. They don't want/need the AOne-name so why should they pay?

They should pay because they are selling Amiga Computers to those
Amiga-fans. Anyway this is all because Ralph Schmidt wanted to clone
AmigaOS and sell it as MorphOS with so called "Amiga compatability".
I'd like to know where he got the OS sources from and how he got
permission for them.





One thing im slightly worried about though is being able to run linux.
I know the dev boards/beta boards are moving with linux on the drives
but once you swap in the ROM will linux still be able to run? It might
take a bit of tinkering with the kernal to get a linux build but i'm
hopeing it will run as is. Even so, i've never been a real linux user.
It's just been something i could always boot when i wanted to tinker
around in linux.

[Ivan]

>Yes, you will be able to buy a linux-only (actually non Amiga OS) board, and subsequently buy the OS4+ROM upgrade package.

>The upgraded ROM will still have all its open firmware code intact so you will still be able to run Linux etc

>Alan

>Eyetech


Thanks Alan, you answered before i even made my post

[Chathurawind]

@Ivan

BPlan aren't building a "Amiga-computer" they have developed a PPC-board
that should be capable to run AOS4. Same goes for the TeronCX until
Eyetech came along and decided to sell it as AXXX.

Eyetech A1 600Euro
Pegasos 560Euro (both without taxes)
Still the Pegasos has the better specs (firewire/cpu-slot).
Makes me wonder how much such a licence costs.


MorphOS is not AmigaOS !!
Its just a rewritten AOS-API + 68k-emu + Quark-kernel.

And don't forget that MorphOS has been started long before AOS4 (Nov.01).
It would be a bit hard to demand Ralph & Co to destroy their hard work.

Given the latest news (Thendic/Petro...) it seems they got a future-
buisness-plan that could work, something i newer saw in over 2
years of AInc.

[Kronos]

/me being anonymous

Damn auto log-out !

[Chathurawind]

you people are too much for me!!!!

The pegasos board will be sold to amigans with a licensed AOS4 copy under the name of MERLANCIA'S TORO SYSTEMS.

cya!

[redrumloa]

Quick note. Let's keep this clean. 'Idiot' and 'Idiocy'
is creeping in here. Respect others opinions.

Also personally I'd suggest avoiding blind speculation
on this announcement.

[Coder]

Once everything is available we can see for ourselves how it will be. And then we can say, ohh but that really s**ks. Or, ohhh that is really great.

Coder

[Kronos]

Merlancia ?
LOL !!!

Have you seen their prieces ? Or the dates on their homepage ?

BtW: The partnership between BPlan and Merlancia lies in ruins. Both
sides are saying they still have to get some money from other side.

[redrumloa]

There may be friction between bPlan and Merlancia,
and there may be money problems. The only thing I have
heard that is pure fact though is that Dave Haynie
has parted ways with Merlancia.

[KennyR]

Hi Kronos,

Yeah sorry. I didn't make myself all that clear. I know a lot of the current Amiga user base aren't going to buy A1's - they'll stick to (sloooow) 68k, nasty XL or get a Shark. The A1 boards are expensive after all. And there is the question of their very limited upgradeability...

But OS4 will indeed sell more than pegasos, even if it's only because the Shark will use it. Now, the fact that it won't run on a pegasos board will not at all make it any easier for bplan to sell them. This is made worse because most of the ppc games lined up for the future (and there aren't many) are planned for OS4. The only way it could get worse for bplan right now is if OS4 is able to emulate or "semi-emulate" pegasos.

I see a parallel in the competition between PowerUp and WarpOS - WarpOS won out because it has more games and advanced software available, and because it can emulate PUP while the reverse is not true. And this was done without any permission from P5, authors of PUP and makers of the boards: some of whom are now backing bplan.

So as I see it, AInc are just making sure that they dominate the market - by fair means or by foul. Such is life.

[Kronos]

Shark ?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Sorry but the Shark is pure vapor atm.
Ben said he didn't have one and its not clear how you will be able
to access the Amiga-mb or Zorro-card.

This will need special drivers and those have to be written by ... who ?

Hyperion wil focuss on the core and than on the A1 leaving the Shark-
support in the future.

BtW: How do you know the Shark will be much cheaper than a A1?

Currently there is far more SW developed for MOS than for AOS4.

Emulation could also work the other way round.

[Herewegoagain]

I want to buy any hardware I want from whomever I want with or without whatever OS I want whenever I want.

While I agree with the idea, the sad truth is that many who do this and "build their own" simply use a pirated copy of the OS from a friend or the same copy they already have running on 4 other systems and intall it on the newly built system.  

In other words, if you buy a new board with a 1GHz G4 to replace the initial A1 G3SE board, and move your copy of Amiga OS4 to the new system, then what happens with the old board?  You sell it to someone else?  Will they buy a copy of OS4 to run on it or will they just simply install the same copy they are running on their other A1 system(s)?  Or will you make them a copy of the AmigaOS4 cd so they can intall it? (esentially using the same copy you have)?  

PLEASE NOTE:  I am NOT saying that you would personally do this, but these are questions that Amiga have to address to ensure sales for their product will be in high enough volume.  And higher sales volume means it will be easier to attract developers  to the platform, while at the same time providing Amiga with cash flow from the product to fund future development.  That's how I see it.

[System]

In respect to all of this, I guess I had just hoped, since AmigaOne was always touted as an "Open Architecture so that anyone can build an Amiga their way" that Amiga Inc had a clue that to succeed and get more than this little community interested in it, the Amiga had to move beyond proprietary, closed-minded systems.  

I guess what I mean is that I would like to have seen eventually "100" manufacturers making "200" different boards, all to the Amiga baseline architecture (much like Mobos of the PC world).  

- Want a RAID capable Amiga?  Buy board x.  
- Want a dual CPU Amiga?  Buy board Y.
- Want a basic level student or kid's computer?  Buy board Z.  

That sort of thing.  That cannot happen if, in Microsoft fashion, they force you to bundle their OS.

A couple of things I don't understand here, and I sincerely don't agree with the marketing on it.  

1) The AmigaOne has been touted as being able to have the capability of running G4's, but Alan straps us down to running a soldered G3/600.  First production run?  Fine.  I've talked to a LOT of the community however who would rather have the ability to buy a bare $350 socketed board, then a $500 G4 from an Amiga dealer than to buy a $550 soldered, G3/600 motherboard with no hopes of ever being able to upgrade it.

2) The move to bundle AmigaOS to the hardware doesn't make sense to me.  Does this mean that you can only buy 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, etc if you buy a new motherboard?  Or.... does this mean that in Microsoft Gestapo fashion, you can only have the opportunity to purchase an upgrade of the OS if you are a registered user of their software?  What if you don't WANT to give them your name and information?  So much for a right to privacy.  If this is the case, I truly fear that AI has been infected by their northern cousin.  Oh... wait... I forgot, a lot of AI's management are Microsoft refugees (I would bet that they are still with Microsoft and that AI has become a silent Microsoft corporation).

Enough X-files conspiracy theory here....  Amiga Inc can do what they want.  It just doesn't seem to me that they have any idea of what the big picture should look like to be a successful company.  

While I have openly supported Amiga Inc since the beginning, I have to agree here with "Ryan" and "Christophe" that this latest press release seems more of a way to protect their money flow and to force manufacturers to pay them (ala Microsoft) than about any imaginary "Quality Control".  

After all, if I wanted to build a company to make Amiga compatible motherboards, it's none of Amiga Inc's damned business what my business plan is, how many boards I sell, or anything else I do.  That is, of course outside of saying "I'd like to buy 500 licenses/ROMs and I'll be back when those are gone".

Such information would be priviledged info to my company which could make, or break my ability to exist and I certainly wouldn't appreciate the thought of Amiga Inc having the power to play favorites with the companies and telling "Alan" (for example) that "hey, according to what Wayne tells me in their latest licensing report, they're about to build a socketed dual motherboard, you had better get ready for that".

I find it interesting that this release making sure that we know if we want to build Amiga compatible motherboards, we have to go through them (and pay them) came out days after my thought to socket the AmigaOne motherboard.  

Nothing they said stops me however (except maybe Alan) from buying a bunch of A1/AOS bundles, then socketing them, assembling them into a computer setup on my own, then selling them as a reseller.

[Argo]

What if a user want to buy AMIGA ONE motherboard just for running Linux, without buying Amiga OS and Amiga ROM?

Well, if Eyetech sell the AmigaOne G3-SE with a standard bios (ie, without AOS 4 exstention) then it is not a Certified Amiga Product thus does not have to ship with Amiga OS. It would be up to the Hardware Vendor to sell an uncertified version.

Same if bPlan wanted to sell Peagasos with AOS 4. They would have to get the board certified. Which would mean it would have to be flashed with a bios with AOS 4 exstentions. It doesn't mean they can't bundle it with MOS. It would just have a different bios (which I assume they have), thus no need to include AOS with the MOS version of Peagasos.

The BIOS would make it a different product.

I assume that if someone wanted to run AOS at a later date that there will be some arrangement made to flash the bios.

[Argo]

Really, people.

Get a good bussiness book, read it.
Get "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, read it.
Get "A Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi. read it.

We in the West have learned well from those in the East.

All will then be clear, Grasshoper.