A statement concerning the distribution situation of Amithlon

[Tomas]

I totally agree _Steve_...

Btw is it just me who have troubles with quote?? Often the Quote button is just missing... Or am i doing something wrong??

kinda annoying

[Dr_Righteous]

The OS isn't the issue here... The ROMs are. Escom AG owned, via US copyright, the Amiga Kickstart ROMs. What's in question here is whether Gateway or Amino Corp/Amiga Inc. owns that copyright.

If AI doesn't own the copyright, they can't make IP complaints. Gateway Inc. would have to do it.

[bhoggett]

If AI doesn't own the copyright, they can't make IP complaints. Gateway Inc. would have to do it.

Patents and copyright are not the same thing. Gateway own all patents, but Amiga Inc have bough the IP, which includes copyright to the OS, assuming Gateway owned that in the first place.

Also, copyright law is international law, and thus not dictated by US copyright law.

However, AI's ownership of Kickstart 3.1 rights is not in question. It seems that H&P and AI have simply been unable to reach an agreement.  BOTH are guilty for allowing AmigaOS XL to be distributed without such an agreement being signed in the first place.

[bhoggett]

It is simply an intelluctual property problem, and once resolved, legal sale of Amithalon/AmigaOS XL would resume.

It might not be that simple. By ingoring Bernie's request that they should cease distribution of AmigaOS XL, H&P are in breach of the contract they signed with him.  Bernie may want to think long and hard before he agrees to let H&P resume distribution of his product.  It's not like they've done a sterling job of it after all.   :-(

[_Steve_]

It might not be that simple. By ingoring Bernie's request that they should cease distribution of AmigaOS XL, H&P are in breach of the contract they signed with him. Bernie may want to think long and hard before he agrees to let H&P resume distribution of his product. It's not like they've done a sterling job of it after all.

It is true that the continued sale is illegal, and that the matter may take some time to resolve, but once the IP problem has been sorted, nothing stops Bernie seeking a different retailer for his product, seeing as he is having big issues with H+P, who (as you said) clearly are ignoring the contract they made with him. Things like this don't serve to give them a good public image all, and will undoubtedly lead to their having reduced software sales and/or demise.

[System]

The fact you'd support MorphOS/Windows over it really says it all. And you are forgetting that AInc had every right in the world to do what they have done. Its *their* property, like it or not. Any other company with IP would do no different. The only company which did the dirty was H&P for misleading Bernie on the state of the license. AInc never lied to Bernie about it, only H&P did. So before you start pointing the finger get your facts straight.

[Dr_Righteous]

Patents and copyright are not the same thing. Gateway own all patents, but Amiga Inc have bough the IP, which includes copyright to the OS, assuming Gateway owned that in the first place.

Show me where it says AI bought anything from Gateway.

However, AI's ownership of Kickstart 3.1 rights is not in question. It seems that H&P and AI have simply been unable to reach an agreement. BOTH are guilty for allowing AmigaOS XL to be distributed without such an agreement being signed in the first place.

They are in question, because I question it. It's a pivotal point to AI's argument. There is nothing listed in the Library of Congress that says Amiga Inc. owns Kickstart. In fact, it says Escom AG owns it still.

[Coder]

Hi,

To my knownledge Amiga Inc bought all the rights (really everything) from Gateway. Except the stuff that was done by Gateway, whatever that might be.

COder

[Allen]

Does it really matter who is to blame?

When Bernie is the one who is getting all the $#@!?

What we should be asking is why, if the freelance programmer is so important to the Amiga's survival, do the bigs boys keep bumping them up?

Will Bernie stay with the Amiga?  Have we lost yet another brilliant programmer due to avarice?

One of THE most important programs, whether you like/use it or not (I don't use it but see it as a great piece of software), to be made for the Amiga in years is now in legal wrangles...

I dispair when I see this.  

Other eyes are now turning onto this community...i.e. The Register et al...should we be in fighting?

Anyhow hope everyone had a good Easter (if you celebrate it that is)  :-D

Allen

[Chathurawind]

Im confused, wasnt Bill all excited about this? - That is, i remember him says "wow, now we have AMIGAOS X86" <--- excited tone!

What a backflip, plus, the rom images and/or OS that comes with the package provide royalities to AmigaInc dont they?

That is, when you buy AmigaOS3.9, some of that goes to Amiga Inc right? - Well, shouldnt it?

[Chathurawind]

Is this true Loki?... Hrmm im confused over who  OS3.9 belongs too... H&P developed 3.5 and 3.9, buuut, who gave them the right to do that? And, does that right, continue into AmigaOSXL? - I wouldnt think so, that would be a seperate contract. - If Amiga Inc was to get royalities from this, i beleive they wouldhave anything to winge about....

But, on the Ownership thing, can anyone help? Whats the deal? Who gave H&P to develop )s3.9 in the first place? Do they have a right to keep distributing it on x86 hardware? etc...

[Weasel]

I have always personally seen XL (and amithlon) as a burst artery, bleeding the Amiga to death

IMHO i dont agree, Amiga inc. should be making some money from it too through licensing and its no threat until os5 or whetever that runs on all kinds of hardware.
XL is more about maintaining a userbase until something better is available

Just think about this: all I know is that this will be good for the sales of remaining amiga hardware and sofware. But perhaps the price of this success is too high. I can only begin to anticipate the anger of XL users.

what amiga hardware? honestly, if my (expanded)1200 dies it would be too expesive to get a decent amiga system back, never mind that a 060 or ppc is almost impossible to get (new). and is still slow compared to pc hardware + amigaXL.
Since i bought AmigaXl and installed it , i have started to really use photogenics,arteffect soundFx and am willing to buy (and have) new software for AmigaOs.
My Xl workbench
 :-)
If AmigaXl is no longer develloped/sold i (and others) would eventually switch to another os and may not come back even if the A-1 is finally released.

I would really like Amithlon to be further develloped and hope this issue is resolved soon!
This is one piece of software that is very good and should not dissapear.

Seperating the rom images from the cd could be an option but not a very nice one.
Its just cool to show people with a pc a Amiga by just popping in the cd  :-D

Richard Mulder
aka Weasel, Techrat

[Chathurawind]

I would like to state that, when the Amithlon distribution contract was
agreed upon, I was led to believe that Haage & Partner had secured the
required licenses to Amiga Inc's IP. In fact, being able to provide
such licenses was the main, if not the only reason H&P was chosen as the
distribution partner. Until I was informed by Amiga Inc of their different
view of the situation, I had no doubt that Amithlon, as distributed as
part of AmigaOS XL, was a fully licensed product.

Having read the article, Amiga Inc dont seem like the bad guys. Infact, Amiga Inc have been working with Amithlon developer to settler the dispute. Looks like H&P are the bad guys in all this!

Bernie seems like a great coder, maybe Amiga Inc could purchase some of his stuff for their JIT? Or atleast, his skills for the JIT - code prollwouldnt be much use :}.

[Chathurawind]

Cloanto could take over the distribution of Amithlon and Amiga XL as the "new" version for "Amiga Forever" product.

Cloanto does have the license rights for Amiga Rom and AmigaOS related products.

[Chathurawind]

This is bad news - our little community cannot afford such infighting between people who should be working together. I hope Amiga are going to be realistic about sorting a deal without getting all strong-arm about it.
Just out of curiousity, where does that leave WinUAE - doesn't that effectively contain certain aspects of the Amiga IP in it in order to operate?
Here's to supporting Bernie.

[Chathurawind]

@Cyberwlf

Hey - I put it in thread mode and saw that you linked to me.

 I didnt once say anything about MOS or Windows - I dindn't once say that I was a fan of either products. My post was about fair play - about Ethics.

I'm fully behind A1 and AmigaOS4. I'm just saying that I feel Bernd is the real victim. H&P are ignoring him, and the impression that I got was that Amiga were cool with Amithlon, as they had publically voiced support for it! Therefor, I can see how Bernie had come to the conclusion that interlectual property rights had been sorted. So your right, Ainc have every right to do what they have done - but it does seem a little carrot and stick to me.

 I dont even own Amithlon - have no want or need to buy it. I'm just looking at the little guy in this.

If you read my other post you'll see that I think Bernie is the victim in all of this, and I also speculated as to this being the second case of intelectual property infingement by H&P. I also wanted clarification as to who owned what!