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Author Topic: PC still playing Amiga catchup  (Read 219263 times)

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Offline Wayne

Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1049 from previous page: June 18, 2009, 10:06:03 PM »
Quote from: koaftder;512101
Did somebody say crack!? Oh goodie!

Now all we need is for someone to get mad, call the other person a Nazi and our lives will be complete..

Wayne
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Offline Trev

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1050 on: June 18, 2009, 10:36:01 PM »
Quote from: Wayne;512157
Now all we need is for someone to get mad, call the other person a Nazi and our lives will be complete..

Wayne


The thread hasn't devolved to comparisons to Hitler yet, but it will eventually, as all threads do.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1051 on: June 18, 2009, 10:40:40 PM »
Quote from: Wayne;512157
Now all we need is for someone to get mad, call the other person a Nazi and our lives will be complete..

Wayne


OMG!!! Stop being like an old Austrian dude with a weird Germany complex and strange ideas about race and empire...




:P

Offline koaftder

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1052 on: June 18, 2009, 11:27:28 PM »
Republicans hate poor people.
 

Offline Trev

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1053 on: June 18, 2009, 11:46:40 PM »
Quote from: koaftder;512174
Republicans hate poor people.


Republicans hate poor people with money. They're fine with poor people as long as they're dependent on Republican-owned corporations for survival. Poor is relative of course. The corporations pay the poor just enough to cover the costs of consumerism, and that money makes its way back into the hands of the corporation, of course. It's a wonderfully cyclical system. The way taxes are structured, though, all the money eventually ends up in the hands of the government, e.g.:

corporation -> poor $100 - poor $75 government $25
poor -> corporation $75 - corporation $56 goverment $19
corporation -> poor $56 - poor $42 government $14
and so on...

Isn't that a wonderful oversimplification?
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1054 on: June 19, 2009, 12:08:16 AM »
Quote from: Wayne;512157
Now all we need is for someone to get mad, call the other person a Nazi and our lives will be complete..

Wayne


Hmm, did you just godwin yourself? :lol:

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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1055 on: June 19, 2009, 12:51:49 AM »
Someone should post a photo of a chimpanzee preening session, for first nitpicker. That behaviour is also guaranteed.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1056 on: June 19, 2009, 12:53:58 AM »
Quote from: Fanscale;512190
Someone should post a photo of a chimpanzee preening session, for first nitpicker. That behaviour is also guaranteed.


I'll add that to the list of stock images I'm collecting and will upload to my photobucket accound when needed :lol:
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1057 on: June 19, 2009, 12:54:13 AM »
Quote from: jkirk;512050
in an api you program to a standard codeset which the os can trap and kill if it goes awry.
in direct hardware you have a set of commands(loose wording) that directly control the hardware that has the potential to let multiple programs access this hardware simultaneously. this creates the possibility of causing a hardware lockup killing the system.

...

You are thinking doing multitasking while someone is accessing directly the hardware and trying to avoid conflicts, but I am talking about just allowing an application to use hardware directly.  You can do that with IOPM or Amiga does it by the application not allowing other applications to run at the same time.

>uh nope if a piece of software requires directx 10 or higher it is cut and dry. directx 10 even has backwards compatibility with previous versions. also this piece of software installs the version it needs on install.

But they also fixed bugs in higher and higher versions of DirectX; so you need to know whether to avoid the bugs or not.  

>yea i do have a shallow understanding of it. but what i understand is that it is a gate system. and the port is open or closed. that it is very simplistic in operation. but closing the barn door after a lockup is not of any use.
>In order for the os to really control the flow you will have to adopt some form of api this way the os can refuse to pass on something that is not properly executed. this is the point of an api.

No, you don't need an API.  Windows for each task keeps track of an IOPM and it can set IOPM to enable hardware ports needed by that application and application directly accesses that port without any API/drivers involved.
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1058 on: June 19, 2009, 01:00:06 AM »
Quote from: Hammer;512051
DirectInput can detect poll rates higher than 1Khz.


Read up on USB "High Speed" 125 usec spec.
 


USB "Full Speed" poll rate can be higher than 1Mhz.


If you look at just the I/O overhead involved for fetching state of joystick, you will see that it involves multiple I/O instructions and other overhead and it's slower than a MOVE.W of Amiga.  And you are going through API which doesn't allow you to take over the USB for just joystick.
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Offline the_leander

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1059 on: June 19, 2009, 01:01:35 AM »
Quote from: amigaksi;512193

But they also fixed bugs in higher and higher versions of DirectX; so you need to know whether to avoid the bugs or not.  


And this is different to hardware bugs, or (unknown to the author) unexpected differences in hardware how?

Quote from: amigaksi;512193

No, you don't need an API.  Windows for each task keeps track of an IOPM and it can set IOPM to enable hardware ports needed by that application and application directly accesses that port without any API/drivers involved.


If that's the case, why, in the name of all that is holy, have you been railing against windows and specifically its APIs like they nailed your mom in your bed for 50+ pages?
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1060 on: June 19, 2009, 01:01:41 AM »
Quote from: Hammer;512059
You haven't addressed Protracker 1.0 vs OctaMed V4 vs Deluxe Music interactions.
...

I am not familiar with those applications.  Perhaps, you want to give description of what needs to be addressed from hardware standpoint?
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1061 on: June 19, 2009, 01:06:33 AM »
Quote from: Hammer;512059

...
Setting the wrong memory timings can corrupt display e.g. Geforce 9650GT running mod desktop driver corrupts the display, while it's fine on Geforce 9500M GS.

Subsequent hardware fixes introduce inconsistencies.

Standards usually have a long verification times e.g. X64 development vs CUDA development.


Didn't see that bottom part-- even CGA had method of setting frequencies that damaged monitors but VGA didn't allow for that on hardware level.  

Actually, I would favor not even fixing hardware bugs in future upgrades to hardware-- so it remains consistent.  In fact, many people use the hardware bugs as features in their applications and expect them.  I know in Atari GTIA chip has a color clock delay in one of the graphics modes which people use to produce interlaced modes with double resolution.
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1062 on: June 19, 2009, 01:10:57 AM »
Quote from: jkirk;512060
lol i think you should look again. nearly every machine i have seen that has parallel has at least one serial port.
...

Sorry, 10 of the 12 machines I have do not have serial ports but have parallel ports.

>let it go this was old tech.

Sorry, gameport is more recent than you think.  

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_port
>http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2keyboard/
>eh only 6 years apart.

You miscomputed.  Game ports were on motherboards in 1990s as well as on audio cards.  I bought an audio card w/gameport just a few years ago.

>things developed for one market can often be used in other markets. the xbox controller was made for xbox. people wanted to use it on a pc so when the market speaks things happen (well sometimes, it sure made them think about it then.)

Original point was that someone is giving a hoot about gaming interface.
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1063 on: June 19, 2009, 01:13:26 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;512197
And this is different to hardware bugs, or (unknown to the author) unexpected differences in hardware how?
...

anwered recently.


>If that's the case, why, in the name of all that is holy, have you been railing against windows and specifically its APIs like they nailed your mom in your bed for 50+ pages?

There's mechanism in hardware to support varous I/O port direct access but if audio/video/etc. boards don't even use same I/O ports or same method of accessing them, what use are they.  First you need hardware level compatibility.
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Offline amigaksi

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Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #1064 on: June 19, 2009, 01:15:58 AM »
Quote from: Hammer;512061
USB "High Speed" spec has 125 usec. IF the APIs brought USB "High Speed" to Amiga’s joystick speed, you shouldn't see USB "High Speed" having 40MB/s effective bandwidth.

From usb faq
Signals
1.   Does USB support data rates besides 12 Mb/s and 1.5 Mb/s?

A:   Yes. The new hi-speed data transfer rate is 480 Mb/s. There is, however, wide variation in edge rates. With typical line loads, full speed devices usually fall in the 12-25 ns range, and low-speed devices typically range 110-225 ns.


Only if you do buffered transfers are you going to get high transfer rates.  For fetching just state of joystick, you have considerable overhead.  And there's a big "IF" there as well since USB joysticks are using very low rate to begin with.
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