PC still playing Amiga catchup

[koaftder]

You look like you had a bad day.

I had a great day.

[amigaksi]

I had a great day.

Then you should have read post #857 where I clearly stated the examples:

That's the chaotic scenario now because they are BASING STANDARD on APIs. Preivously, all manufacturers were complying with hardware standards-- look at PS/2 keyboards and ports, look at parallel ports, look at VGA/EGA/CGA cards, look at serial ports, look at floppy drive interfaces at 3F0..3f7h, etc. By the way, even now there are devices that are based on hardware standards based on ACPI specification. So whoever thinks it's not doable nowadays is just speculating.

>this is true however as these new features come into existance the api is updated with functions that allow you to use the features that programmers need and want implemented. as such those games are still possible you just need to be creative with what you have.

You are more restricted with APIs; APIs are slower and inefficient. APIs are more inexact. You can also update hardware and allow previous software to still run the same.

[amigaksi]

Nope, this is wrong. Nobody uses that hardware, no modern machines ship with it. Folks haven't used it in 10 years.

You did have a bad day.  I use IN AL,DX in 2.8Ghz Dell machine and in this other AMD Sempron 3000+ machine.  Unless PCs have this instruction, they aren't backward compatible and not really "PC"s.

[amigaksi]

Hi,

@amigaksi,

Like what that the joystick is faster than a PC's, sorry I don't use one in any of the latest games that I have purchased. Listen if you alter the tests in your favor than any computer can beat the other one, I do this to unsuspecting PC users who have never seen an Amiga and then I try to pick the PC's weakest points just so them there suckers can be destroyed by a 25 mhz machine.

...

It's real data done on a 2.8Ghz Dell machine.  If you don't think it's real, rather than LIE and MISLEAD others, you have to go and repeat the experiment.  And if you don't have time for that, I suggest getting MPDOS software and trying the simulation yourself with your own games and joysticks and do the recordings yourself.  I'm sure you are familiar with scientific method (and ethics as well not to throw bullcrap of whatever comes up on the top of your head).

>Face it Amigaksi, even I one of the first 5 people in the Jacksonville FL area to buy an Amiga knows that it has seen better days, the hardware is old, the OS is old and by trickery we can make the Amiga beat unwary PC users.

I am not trying to make it beat a PC; it's what happens in some cases.

>Heck I haven't written a program in about 10 years, ...

That's the problem.  You have lost your memory of what Amiga is capable of (or purposely want to be in ignorance).

[koaftder]

You did have a bad day.  I use IN AL,DX in 2.8Ghz Dell machine and in this other AMD Sempron 3000+ machine.  Unless PCs have this instruction, they aren't backward compatible and not really "PC"s.

You're missing something there aren't you? IN AL, DX is kinda ambiguous isn't it? It's as if there was a temporal component missing....

[amigaksi]

Hi,

@stefcep2,

I know the reason PC's got rid of floppy drives is that when they format them it drags down out 2.4 ghz CPU and brings the computer to a stand still.

smerf

Floppy access is slower on newer OSes than in older ones.  May be I/O protection and/or virus checking that slows things down so much.

[amigaksi]

You're missing something there aren't you? IN AL, DX is kinda ambiguous isn't it? It's as if there was a temporal component missing....

Check the intel references.

[paolone]

You look like you had a bad day.

And you look like having been hit in a terrible accident, being sleeping for years, and then woke up and started writing here. Seriously: we have tried for pages and pages to let you understand that time changed, hardware evolved, programming rules also and habits too.

I even quoted a passage that said USB ports can poll at 1 KHz, and you replied to me that I have to look at the "standard PC configurations". Oh, my God! "standard configurations": if it isn't standard USB, what can be considered standard on a PC nowadays?

You are incredible: "there sare billions of gameports out there". There aren't ANY. There have not been a single gameport in any average PC for years now, nor there are PC-compatible joysticks/Wheels (yes, to a PC gameport and USB you can connect also wheels) with gameport plug anymore. Gameports were common on soundcards a long ago, but only for a simple reason: they also provided MIDI functions with a simple adapter cable. Now nobody uses them for this reason anymore. Even discrete sound cards are practically dead, and used by a niche. We are in 2009, w-a-k-e  u-p!

You are neverending this meaningless, pointless, silly, crazy joystick port and hardware-banging arguments even if you are the last man all over the world believing in them, but if NOBODY ELSE agrees with you, maybe you should start dubitating about them, shouldn't you? Sorry for being harsh, but when it's too much, it's too much.

regards,

[koaftder]

Check the intel references.

No thanks, I'm very familiar with them, having been working on my own little hobby kernel written in fasm for the past few months.

[amigaksi]

But it is not objective when you're dismissing a huge chunk of where issues lay. It would be objective only if you take into account peoples skills. I tried explaining this to you earlier but you dismissed it because it didn't fit in with your magical fairyland.

...

I never even argued point about ASM vs. high level languages with you before so stop lieing.  It's objective that you have more power using ASM than a high level language.  High level language gives you subset of what you can do with ASM.  It's logical.  You are in a fairyland because you are inept to even comprehend what I am stating.  I can also write insults, but I prefer rationality.

>Citation. Now.

I already gave citation in this thread.  You only reply many days later so as to confuse people as if it was never stated.  In Amigas games/applications, it's digital joystick or mouse-- no analog joysticks.  Maybe there's some rare exceptions.

>You're bitching at someone else dismissing a highly specialised and none too often used tech?

I compared with both USB and Gameport.  Where have you been?

>Hypocrite much?

You are a biased side-kick.  He seems to understand the subject more than you so why not let him reply.

>As has been shown, USB can be made to poll as fast, if not faster then ithe Amigas.

That's not the point.  If you go back and RE-READ this thread, you will see that I stated Gameport cannot do 1Khz not USB.  I said USB is slower than reading joystick on Amiga.  You are lost.

>Have you actually shown an Amiga game yet that uses even a tenth of your supposed 1khz response time?

How many times are you going to keep repeating the same question and not reply to the responses given?  I don't forget that fast.

>The reality is that there hasn't been a Gameport based joystick, digital or otherwise released for sale in at least 6 years. It's all USB.

Good for you.  There's about a billion Gameports out there so it's still should be considered in the analysis along with USB.

>To do anything else would be an excersise in redundancy. What's next, you prove Amigas are superior to PC's because of ISA?

You can fantasize with your fairy tales all you want.  It's a fact that gameports and USB devices are both out there.  As I stated, people still sell joysticks based on gameport.  XP supported gameports as well and most people where I live still use XP.

[stefcep2]

PC wins. Can i have my rep points back now, please?

[amigaksi]

And you look like having been hit in a terrible accident, being sleeping for years, and then woke up and started writing here. Seriously: we have tried for pages and pages to let you understand that time changed, hardware evolved, programming rules also and habits too.
...

You can speculate all you want.  He's claiming "IN AL,DX" is not present.  It is present on all the PCs I have used and I gave two examples.  

>I even quoted a passage that said USB ports can poll at 1 KHz, and you replied to me that I have to look at the "standard PC configurations". Oh, my God! "standard configurations": if it isn't standard USB, what can be considered standard on a PC nowadays?

You misunderstood it.  Why don't you reply to my refutation rather than twist things.  USB is faster than Gameport, but it's still slower than Amiga's move instruction.  I didn't say it was same speed as Gameport which has problems reaching 1khz sampling.

>You are incredible: "there sare billions of gameports out there". There aren't ANY.

Liar.  This is easily disproveable.  I have two in front me right now and I know Dell and Compaq have sold similar models with gameports on them.

>There have not been a single gameport in any average PC for years now, nor there are PC-compatible joysticks/Wheels (yes, to a PC gameport and USB you can connect also wheels) with gameport plug anymore. Gameports were common on soundcards a long ago, but only for a simple reason: they also provided MIDI functions with a simple adapter cable. Now nobody uses them for this reason anymore. Even discrete sound cards are practically dead, and used by a niche. We are in 2009, w-a-k-e  u-p!

Look at what's out there not what's being produced right now.  When you right some software you have to consider what's out there-- not which machine you have because you keep ugrading every few months.

>You are neverending this meaningless, pointless, silly, crazy joystick port and hardware-banging arguments even if you are the last man all over the world believing in them, but if NOBODY ELSE agrees with you, maybe you should start dubitating about them, shouldn't you? Sorry for being harsh, but when it's too much, it's too much.

Speak for yourself.  Many people agree with me.  How can you make a statement "NOBODY else agrees with you."  You don't even know all the people I speak to.  Same bogus statement as earlier-- THERE ARE NO GAMEPORTs.  You are not being harsh.  Just making invalid statements that are DISPROVEN by a child.

[amigaksi]

PC wins. Can i have my rep points back now, please?

I think "REP" stands for "Real Emulation Programs".  If you haven't used REPs, then that goes to zero.

[koaftder]

PC wins. Can i have my rep points back now, please?

i gave you +1, it's a net +1 for you from me because i never gave you a -1. I see you went from 0 to 2, i still don't understand how this works.

[amigaksi]

It's all down to the trolling at this point. One fellow wants to state that a computer from the 80's is superior by comparing it to interfaces the PC hasn't used in years. And now we have an argument that the floppy disc isn't obsolete. I say that if you are going to dwell in this inanity, then you know what to sit on and where to cut your self with that metal floppy disk shield.
...

It's not trolling.  PC I/Os aren't that fast.  Anything requiring multiple I/Os becomes comparable on Amiga using a single I/O.  And in some cases, Amiga surpasses PC.  I compared with USB and Gameport.  Floppy disks aren't obsolete if that's all you need to play games or write your software.  Burning CDs is usually slower than copying a file to/from floppy and floppies work with older machines that don't have Flash drive capability or drivers (like Win98SE).  Hey, why don't you just give up on the joysticks and do research on palette index data swapping.  I prefer programs on older machines that are highly optimized and work flawlessly at 60Hz.  If it gets the job done, why label it obsolete.

[amigaksi]

Incidentally, when I say "custom hardware" I was not referring to a PC addon card.  I was referring to embedded designs such as Minimig, that would be a completely dedicated, custom board, designed to do something far more efficiently than a PC can.

Programmable micro-controllers are so cheap these days, people are using them for everything.

I mean, does it really make sense to boot our PCs just to do a sum?  No, we still have pocket calculators (though mostly likely probably use our mobile phones).

Granted custom boards can do better than Copper chip but those won't count in comparing PCs vs. Amiga.