PC still playing Amiga catchup

[amigaksi]

Unless it's interupted during the IN AL,DX by say, the task scheduler and gets to do something else. IO is almost always done in an synchronous way on PC's. And I'm pretty sure that waiting on the joyport/parrallel port/serial port/whatever port doesn't actually stop me (and therefore the processor) from doing other things.

...

It's not done in parallel usually.

[Trev]

I don't think it's disk fault as reformatting disk drive or reinstalling registry (if you had backup and had used FAT32 and booted via DOS) made system useable again.

Reformatting or restoring the file would most likely place the data on a good sector, leaving the bad sector unused and waiting for the next unwitting block of data to be written to it. It depends on the disk and the allocation scheme used.

Yeah, there's MTBF of disks, but the idea of writing to same file over and over again for all that information verses many different files makes disaster bigger on registry than on Amiga. Amiga disk failures are due to MTBFs or disks lying around in dirt/damp places.

Of course, but it could also be caused by an interruption to the OFS/FFS file system routines, which are in no way fault tolerant.

The most likley cause of the problem in both cases (regsitry on NTFS v. arbitrary data on OFS/FFS) is a disk failure or a catastrophic system failure. Edge cases related to file system deficiencies and unsynchronized access to data structures are less common, but NTFS obviously has an edge over OFS/FFS.

[Trev]

More APIs less hardware standards translates to: (1) More confusion, (2) more inexactness, (3) more restrictions as to what a standard game/application can do, (4) more inefficient code, (4) more bloated OSes with hundreds of drivers and different APIs supported.  If they had just standardized the I/O ports or memory map areas, then the competition can still be there.

By defining those standards, you limit innovation. How wide are the ports? 1 byte? 4 bytes? 8 bytes? How large is the framebuffer? 256 kilobytes? 4 megabytes? 256 megabytes? 1 gigabyte?

The only surefire way to provide both backward and forward compatibility is an API, regardless of where that API is implemented.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Commodore was unable to react as quickly other companies...

I won't stand for negative comments about God... er I mean Jay. I would speculate that Dave simply didn't understand Jay's approach to things and needed a full redesign to go forward. I believe Dave's gripe was that you couldn't alter one chip without affecting the others.:hammer:
I think more likely cost was really the problem. i.e. Commodore wanted it to run on 'pixie dust' not money.:confused:

[Trev]

It's not done in parallel usually.

It's not? Even the Amiga did things in parallel, hence the sensitivity to actions that interfered with system timing, e.g. a CAS instruction.

Most (not all, but most) new systems sold today have at least two CPU cores, never mind the number of independent execution units on the cores themselves. Parallel execution is now the de facto standard, whether your software is aware of it or not. You can ignore parallel execution, of course, but only to the detriment of the rest of the system.

[Trev]

What, you mean something like this:

This setting changes the length of the quantum assigned to tasks. By default, the applications/programs setting assigns a quantum of 2 ticks to background threads and 6 ticks to threads owned by the foreground process. The background services setting assigns a quantum of 12 ticks to all threads. You can also modify the default and boosted tick counts.

So, Windows doesn't allow you to change the scheduler, but it does allow you to change the behavior of the scheduler.

Linux allows you to change the scheduler, but the different schedulers are sometimes just variations on the same theme, i.e. variable v. fixed quantums.

Both systems implement some form of priority boosting. Windows supports accounting (scheduling metadata) through various add-ons. Linux probably does, too, but I don't know off the top of my head.

[smerf]

Oddness. Formatting floppies, even on win2k always seemed fine on my athlonxp system (which is... 4PC's ago), then again I did set it so that each explorer window ran in it's own individual thread, which improved multitasking performance (not to mention stability) no end.

So, what exactly were the terms for this challenge?

I mean, was it a from boot race or?? Just curious.

Hi,

It was just a task race, the rules were that he would pick a task, then I would pick a task, we would pick about 10 tasks and see who would get done first, from the time we hit the on switch to the finish time. Like some people would pick a video ( we had to pick one that both machines could play) download certain files, format a floppy and then fill it with some files, backup a hard drive, or copy files from one hard drive to another, you know common everyday tasks that people do with their computers. I mean there were somethings that he would pick that it would be impossible for the Amiga to do, and then there were somethings that I would pick that a PC couldn't do (like running windows for a whole year without a crash). Now today I don't know if the Amiga could compete with the new Quad Core or the new Intel 7 chip. I know that one test formatting a hard drive and running programs off of another fell through since the sata drives came out. I used to like the one on partitioning a 2 gig partition on hard drive and formatting it, it took the PC forever to do this or doing a defrag on a hard drive.  Yep one of these days I may make up a list and have my son run my Quad Core and I will run the Amiga to see which one wins. By the way have you noticed I haven't said Apple at all.

smerf

[Trev]

You are mixing algorithms with optimizations.  If you have the same algorithm, asm version wins over high level language version.

In what way? Performance? Maintainability? Cost?

For what target audience? Hardware designers? Compiler designers? Application programmers?

[smerf]

Look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiIr2oJZ0l4

amigaksi vs PC users

Hi,

@Fanscale

That was great, I could see Amigaski now, walking into a pc store and blowing away every PC there, while screaming.

smerf

[Trev]

and then there were somethings that I would pick that a PC couldn't do (like running windows for a whole year without a crash).

OK, you know that was a silly comment. Of course Windows can run for a year without a "crash." You're not likely to run a video player or a game on consumer grade hardware for a year without a crash, but you're also not expecting 100% uptime under those conditions.

[smerf]

My dual core 2.2 Ghz CPU eats around 35Watts.

Hi,

@Hammer,

Would you care to repharase that, your CPU may use 35 watts, but what size is your power supply, your video card, your audio chips or card, your hard drive, your CD-ROM player (or DVD) your memory, your USB ports, and your fancy little cpu cooler.

add them all up

and your computer is probably equal to one heck of a room heater

[ElPolloDiabl]

There seems to be a consensus that a Mac/PC is actually designed for SOHO/Satanic Accountants.:madashell:
Maybe I should have titled this, "Smartphones, still playing Amiga catchup."
I can see that consoles have surpassed their original design (adding live etc.)
But, some are holding out (including myself) that the Amiga was designed to be a home computer...

Happy New Years btw. I can still see this argument continuuing for a while yet.

[persia]

Most smartphones have passed the Amiga long ago, did you see the new Samsung Android?

There seems to be a consensus that a Mac/PC is actually designed for SOHO/Satanic Accountants.:madashell:
Maybe I should have titled this, "Smartphones, still playing Amiga catchup."
I can see that consoles have surpassed their original design (adding live etc.)
But, some are holding out (including myself) that the Amiga was designed to be a home computer...

Happy New Years btw. I can still see this argument continuuing for a while yet.

[smerf]

Stop the bullcrap; you're just serving as a biased sidekick like some others.  Be objective and perhaps  you will see such a clear cut point.

Hi,

@amigaksi,

Like what that the joystick is faster than a PC's, sorry I don't use one in any of the latest games that I have purchased. Listen if you alter the tests in your favor than any computer can beat the other one, I do this to unsuspecting PC users who have never seen an Amiga and then I try to pick the PC's weakest points just so them there suckers can be destroyed by a 25 mhz machine. Its just so much fun, which computer do I like better, well if a crook tried to rob me and he asked me which computer he shoul steal, I would probably say take the PC, it is one of the latest greatest computers on the market today, just check out the stores,  and you will be able to pawn it for more money. That old yellowing white computer there was made in 1993 and is only 25 mhz, it is so old that you can't even use windows on it but I mean if you want to take the time and effort to carry it out, you are the crook.

Why would I do that, because I still can get another Quad Core, but darn it sure would be hard to get another Amiga.

Face it Amigaksi, even I one of the first 5 people in the Jacksonville FL area to buy an Amiga knows that it has seen better days, the hardware is old, the OS is old and by trickery we can make the Amiga beat unwary PC users. Heck I haven't written a program in about 10 years, I have all my programming books for the Amiga in a box up in the attic, I have about 10 boxes full of Amiga parts, boards etc. I have about 12 disk boxes, and 5 disk file boxes full of Amiga programs, and yes some where up there I have 3 different joysticks and one competition gamepad for the Amiga, also a CD32 with a SX-1, 2 A3000,
one A1200 with a ppc 250 card, an amiga 500 an Amiga 1000 board (my wife chucked my other 1000 since the day she sat down naked in front of my 1080 monitor and said do you know what this means, and I answered, yes your blocking my monitor, women just get angry about nothing) and then my A4000 which sits on my desk still using it might add. Our only hope is that Mr. Bill McEwen makes an Amiga OS for the barebone PC.

smerf

[smerf]

But Smerf don't you get their standard reply yet:  "they don't use a floppies, so they don't format them, they don't care, it doesn't matter.  PC wins"

Hi,

@stefcep2,

I know the reason PC's got rid of floppy drives is that when they format them it drags down out 2.4 ghz CPU and brings the computer to a stand still.

smerf

[smerf]

I feel cheated the floppy has been left behind... Oh wait you can have adf files.

2GB USB flash drive ~$15. Pack of ten floppy disks ~$5. PC floppy drive ~$15

I think that is the definition of obsolete.


Notice: To be taken as directed. Please read the label and consult a Doctor if symptoms persist.

Hi,

@Fanscale,

Wow, we can tell your rich, because you shop the high class stores, or maybe you don't know how to shop, I just bought 2  2 gig usb flash drives for $9.95, thats 4 gig of CF drive space for $9.95 and not used either. As far as floppies, I just go through the dumpsters in back of the computer stores, sometimes dumpster diving could bring you some surprising stuff, like four 1.1ghz computers with 30 gig hard drives and 512 mbyte memory. @ external scsi enclosures, and over 500 floppy disks of which 100 where of the 720 K brand.

smerf