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Offline crawffTopic starter

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Pirated Games…
« on: May 06, 2009, 03:54:03 PM »

I was wondering if the impact of pirated games for the Amiga seriously contributed to Amiga’s downfall or was Commodore still largely to blame?

If we had brought all are games at full retail price, would Commodore have been in a superior financial position?

I am only curious… I remember reading my Amiga magazines at the time which suggested that Pirated games would spell the end of the Amiga… (as a mainstream system)
 

Offline mbrantley

Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 04:05:28 PM »
More software sales would have certainly helped the software companies, but Commodore was primarily a hardware company. And I believe it went out of business through no fault of its customers.
 

Offline Phantom

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 04:10:10 PM »
Mehdi Ali, Mehdi Ali...  :whack:
To Be A True Adventurer, You Ought To Play Real Text Adventures
 

Offline gaula92

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 04:13:11 PM »
Yeah, pirated games caused the end of the PlayStation, didn't them?

No: they caused the end of many developers, but $ony sold all the crap they could make (damn psx thing, breaks so easily...)

CMB was doomed because of the lack of innovation/vision of their directives. I don't see much improvement from Amiga 1000 on, really... AGA was a sorry excuse for an improvement, PC hardware was cheap, etc... you surely know the story. They had the power in 1984, but Amiga technology was about the same in 1994.

Now don't take me wrong: I like Amiga, and it's my all time favorite computer. But comercially speaking, marketing needs innovation, and CMB didn't delived it. They didn't allow Amiga itself to develop and evolve as envisioned by genius Jay Miner and the original Amiga team. So screw CBM. They got what they deserved. Bad thing is the actual bloatware OS situation. I hope M$ follows the patch of Commodore sometime soon. I'd love to see that.
 

ChuckT

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 04:33:43 PM »
I think there were a number of factors.  

They put out the C-16 with improved basic and less memory to compete with a product that wasn't available and customers wanted more and not less.
They killed the C-65 even though it was practically completed and its sale could have kept Commodore afloat.
There were third party manufacturers who were making ram expansions for the C-128 because lines have been drawn for the REU but Commodore didn't want a product competing with the Amiga.
They didn't do research and development to improve the speed of the chips.
Irving Gould wrestled control from those who knew how to run the company and basically drove the company into the ground.
The banks started dictating how the company was to be run.
There was inappropriate pricing on some of Commodore's software.
They fired the CEO trying to save jobs at Commodore.
 

Offline quarkx

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 05:40:48 PM »
You also have to remember at that time, there were no real successful "computer" companies, no real corporate model on how to run one. Each of the "major" computer companies back then had something else to fall back on. The most successful computer company at the time (TANDY) pulled right out of the computer game in that time, preferring to let AST build the computers and brand them with the Tandy name. AST lasted a year after that.
That, and the fact that Gould treated CBM like a personal bank account, and no real marketing of the Amiga in North America (I don't remember one Amiga commercial on TV, but the C64 had tons), lead to the downfall.
In Canada the CDTV and CD32 had no marketing what so ever (even though the CDTV was sold here) No one knew of the CD32 and most people still don't. Infact, I know gamers who were lining up for a SEGA 32x system, because SEGA marketed it to the hilt. Commodore, nothing.
I have Amiga stuff for sale at http://amigalounge.com. You can follow my builds there also.
 

Offline Phantom

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 06:00:42 PM »
Quote
because SEGA marketed it to the hilt. Commodore, nothing.


"...to be this good, it will take SEGA ages!" ;-)
To Be A True Adventurer, You Ought To Play Real Text Adventures
 

Offline Seiya

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 06:10:59 PM »
pirated games in any platform and console have brought to an increase of hardware sale.
Amiga had boom of proper success thanks to the piracy even if it was illegitimate.

Commdore is bankrupt because his executive  were not good to manage it as it's owed.

Offline VingtTrois

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 06:22:12 PM »
..yes and we have a picture of the biggest pirates of the world:

-A3K(T)040@35MHz/78MB/KS3.1/OS3.9/Buster11/PICASSO II/GVP IO/A2088XT/DENEB/HDD18GB
-A3K(D)030@25MHz/134MB RAM/KS3.1/OS3.9/Buster11/RETINA Z2/OKTAGON 2008/VLAB YC/MIDI/DKB3128/HDD18GB
-A2K/ROM 1.3-3.1/2MBCHIP/8MB/A2091/OKTAGON 2008/A2058/TANDEM IDE/FlickerFixer-Scandoubler/Genlock
-A1200/KS3.1/2MB+9MB/CF2GB A1200[/
 

Offline brianb

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 07:03:20 PM »
I think claims of piracy are used by management of every sinking company/industry...   Music and movie industries are recent examples, it must be the piracy not the crap they are producing.
 

Offline Tension

Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 07:22:39 PM »
Indeed it could be argued that piracy HELPED the Amiga.  When i got my first Amiga in 1992, it came with a pleathora of pirated games.

Without the abundance of cheap games (£2 per game plus 50p per extra disk) on the black market, I doubt I would have had many games at all, and would have got rid of the Amiga platform about 12 years ago.

Taking disks into school to copy/exchange disks with mates etc.

IMHO Commodore sold more Amigas because of piracy.


Be gentle.

Offline crawffTopic starter

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 07:28:50 PM »
To be honest..i would have to agree..

I only wanted an amiga after seeing one round my friends who had hundreds of games etc..

I was amazed (jealous).. so pestered my dad to buy me one...
 

Offline quarkx

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2009, 09:40:22 PM »
Quote

Tension wrote:

IMHO Commodore sold more Amigas because of piracy.


Be gentle.


I think the same point was brought up in the Book "on the Edge". It applies to all the "Home" computers at the time, not just the Amiga, but C64, TRS-80, Apple 2 etc.
You most likely got the computer that most of you friends had, so you could swap games. Same idea with the Consoles at the time. More people bought Atari, or Intelivision because their friends had one and you could trade games.
Piracy helped the birth of home computers. With no internet and most people never owning even a modem until the late '80's- early 90's there was not alot to do, but pirate software. Now if you had a dual cassette deck for dubbling.... :lol:
I have Amiga stuff for sale at http://amigalounge.com. You can follow my builds there also.
 

Offline save2600

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2009, 10:04:40 PM »
Just think... if Commodore & the 3rd party developers had the gee-whiz to acknowledge & creatively handle the piracy as it was, instead of punishing the ethically centred few, they could have struck a deal that would have enabled everyone to be more profitable. Even the so called "backup" program companies could have kicked something back to an already profitable software industry. And that's exactly what happened when consumer CD-R's and CD recorders first came about. For every blank CD that was sold, a portion of the profit went toward ASCAP and maybe even the RIAA IIRC. But the industry as a whole (or should that read hole?) still cried fowl.  lol

In other words (as if the Amiga wasn't already priced high enough for what it was toward the end), had Commodore built into the price, a reverse royalty of sorts to the active & approved 3rd party software people AND/OR lowered the cost of development, blah blah blah. Music industry could do this thanks to unions, but there is no such organisation with software companies - is there?). Piracy would have still happened, but there *is* profit to be made in its wake. And lets face it: games were expensive back then. When I look back at these mags/catalogues from the 80's, I'm aghast to see that MOST of the games back then were in the $40-$60 range. Exactly where they lie today. Had these companies NOT been so greedy (and this is partly what I am talking about when I say those of us that bought, were punished in a sense), they ALL could have lowered their MSRP's. I mean really. What incentive would someone have to go out of their way to buy a $50-$80 "backup" program/hardware doo-hickey or pay for expensive on-line BBS downloading when the games should have been more affordable from the get go?

Texas Instruments got greedy when they purposely screwed MOST/ALL of their "unofficial" developers with the introduction of their beige /4A model. That model was designed purely for the sake of locking out 3rd party developers for those not in the know. And look where it got that once *excellent* platform.

A LOT of Nintendo's developers bailed after a while too because of similar treatment. Squaresoft anyone?

Music industry did it to CD's, movie industry is doing it to DVD's and there are countless other counter-productive business examples that have gone on and continue to go on. Simplistically put: because of greed, politics and lack of energy to get things done unless it involves a ton of money for nothing. IMHO    :madashell:
 

Offline adz

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Re: Pirated Games…
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2009, 12:34:40 AM »
Quote

crawff wrote:

I was wondering if the impact of pirated games for the Amiga seriously contributed to Amiga’s downfall...


Short answer...No

Long answer...Use the search function, this has been discussed waaaay tooooo many times already.