Amiga Inc AGA patents?

[Piru]

@persia

Once we're sure the patents have expired would it be ok to clone the chips?

No.

Reimplementing the same functionality (say in FPGA) is naturally allowed.

[freqmax]

In these days with patent trolls and abused copyright laws. I wouldn't take that for granted.

[ChuckT]

"Haynie Dave" turned up nothing.

http://www.thule.no/haynie/zorroiii/docs/zorro.pdf
Patent # 5,276,887
Date of Patent, Jan. 4, 1994.

[freqmax]

Not easy to catch them all when the paper record states "David B. Haynie" and the online record states "Haynie; David B." ..

Found with "Commodore Electronics Limited":
1       5,432,801 Method and apparatus for performing multiple simultaneous error detection on data having unknown format
2       5,421,590 Multiple linked game controllers
3       5,418,321 Audio channel system for providing an analog signal corresponding to a sound waveform in a computer system
4       5,412,667 Decoder for cross interleaved error correcting encoded data
5       D356,835 CD-ROM video game machine
6       5,317,732 System for relocating a multimedia presentation on a different platform by extracting a resource map in order to remap and relocate resources
7       5,313,300 Binary to unary decoder for a video digital to analog converter
8       5,293,606 Apparatus and method for transferring interleaved data objects in mass storage devices into separate destinations in memory
9       5,276,887 Bus arbitration system for granting bus access to devices following two-wire bus arbitration protocol and devices following three-wire bus arbitration protocol
10      D277,857 Computer
11      D277,855 Computer
12      D277,755 Computer
13      4,277,784 Switch scanning means for use with integrated circuits

Filing dates 1979-07-13 to 1993-07-23

Is it the "Filed" or "Date of patent" that is the starting date for the patent + 20 years or something else?, the infamous GIF/LZW patent was filed in 1983 and is said to have expired in 2003. So I assume the filing date is what counts?

Checking the US 5,276,887 patent at the European patent office. Reveals a related patent in Europe. But EP0518037 (A2, A3?) have a legal record effective in 1996-06-05 labeled "DEEMED TO BE WITHDRAWN". What to make out of this?

Anyway to find out who sits on "Commodore electronics Ltd" patent assets?

[ChuckT]

There is a lawyer listed in the patents and names of people who prepared and overviewed the patents.  I suppose they would have last contact.

I'm sure that these patents could be licensed for pennies because the patent owners aren't making any money off of them.

[freqmax]

According to wikipedia "Commodore International Corporation" .. "bought all the global rights, patents and assets to the Commodore brand in 2005". Assumably thats where the ball is now.

Otoh, the last ones expire in 2012 or so. And any FPGA board as such isn't likely to be claimed as infringing. As it in essence just contain the reconfigurable chip with some Audio/Video connections in essence.

The HDL code is another story. But then I guess it's of marginaly interest. And huge potential for backfiring if any Unisys stunt is attempted.

Summary of all patents found so far, with the still valid ones in bold:

Filed-date,  Patent-no,  Description
1996-09-30 6,484,189 Methods and apparatus for a multimedia authoring and presentation system
1995-01-17 5,574,843 Methods and apparatus providing for a presentation system for multimedia applications
1993-07-23 D356,835  CD-ROM video game machine
1993-07-23 5,432,801 Method and apparatus for performing multiple simultaneous error detection on data having unknown format
1993-07-23 5,421,590 Multiple linked game controllers
1993-07-08 5,412,667 Decoder for cross interleaved error correcting encoded data
1993-03-08 5,594,473 Personal computer apparatus for holding and modifying video output signals
1992-08-10 5,313,300 Binary to unary decoder for a video digital to analog converter
1992-00-15 5,418,321 Audio channel system for providing an analog signal corresponding to a sound waveform in a computer system
1991-06-06 5,276,887 Bus arbitration system for granting bus access to devices following two-wire bus arbitration protocol and devices following three-wire bus arbitration protocol
1991-04-26 5,317,732 System for relocating a multimedia presentation on a different platform by extracting a resource map in order to remap and relocate resources
1991-04-02 5,293,606 Apparatus and method for transferring interleaved data objects in mass storage devices into separate destinations in memory
1989-10-16 5,103,499 Beam synchronized coprocessor
1989-10-02 4,954,949 Universal connector device for bus networks in host computer
1988-10-27 4,989,174 Fast gate and adder for microprocessor ALU
1988-00-09 5,088,035 System for accelerating execution of program instructions by a microprocessor
1987-05-29 4,851,826 Computer video demultiplexer
1987-05-19 4,886,941 Circuit for interfacing mouse input device to computer system
1986-09-22 4,813,671 Raster monitor for video game displays
1986-07-28 4,686,487 Current mirror amplifier
1986-07-18 4,874,164 Personal computer apparatus for block transfer of bit-mapped image data
1986-07-18 4,829,473 Peripheral control circuitry for personal computer
1986-07-18 4,780,844 Data input circuit with digital phase locked loop
1986-07-18 4,772,882 Cursor controller user interface system
1986-03-21 4,759,716 Rotating color mapped radar sweep simulator
1986-01-02 4,761,736 Memory management unit for addressing an expanded memory in groups of non-contiguous blocks
1985-07-19 4,777,621 Video game and personal computer
1983-06-03 4,572,506 Raster line comparator circuit for video game
1983-06-03 4,569,019 Video sound and system control circuit
1983-05-16 4,471,465 Video display system with multicolor graphics selection
1983-04-29 4,471,464 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1983-04-22 4,471,463 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1983-04-04 D281,503  Printer
1983-04-04 D280,322  Videogame cartridge case
1983-02-27 4,677,890 Sound interface circuit
1983-01-17 4,599,528 Self booting logical or circuit
1983-01-17 4,570,085 Self booting logical AND circuit
1983-01-06 4,562,365 Clocked self booting logical
1983-01-06 4,561,659 Display logic circuit for multiple object priority
1983-01-03 4,551,682 Digital sine-cosine generator
1982-08-27 D277,857  Computer
1982-08-27 D277,855  Computer
1982-08-27 D277,755  Computer
1981-06-08 4,435,779 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1981-05-26 4,388,563 Solid-state fluorescent lamp ballast
1981-05-18 4,404,972 Implantable device with microprocessor control
1981-05-18 4,390,022 Implantable device with microprocessor control
1979-07-13 4,277,784 Switch scanning means for use with integrated circuits
1979-01-08 4,296,476 Data processing system with programmable graphics generator
1977-09-23 4,212,100 Stable N-channel MOS structure
1976-09-14 4,099,232 Interval timer arrangement in a microprocessor system
1976-09-14 4,081,699 Depletion mode coupling device for a memory line driving circuit
1976-00-01 4,074,301 Field inversion control for N-channel device integrated circuits
1975-09-16 3,991,307 Integrated circuit microprocessor with parallel binary adder having on-the-fly correction to provide decimal results
1975-09-15 4,011,105 Field inversion control for N-channel device integrated circuits
1974-00-13 3,941,989 Reducing power consumption in calculators

Do the still valid patents pose any legal risks to the current Amiga projects?

[freqmax]

Seems only two patents remains now..

Filed-date,  Patent-no,  Description
1996-09-30 6,484,189 Methods and apparatus for a multimedia authoring and presentation system
1995-01-17 5,574,843 Methods and apparatus providing for a presentation system for multimedia applications

[psxphill]

Once we're sure the patents have expired would it be ok to clone the chips? All the parts are getting old and we will be needing replacements.

What do you mean by "cloned".
 
There is nothing inherent in the patent system that prevents you cloning a chip as a patent only covers how the design works. Patenting a chip doesn't stop someone from producing something that is pin compatible, it just has to work in a different way (depending on what is patented the chip could have seemingly identical characteristics).
 
If you actually want to make a copy of the chip by photographing the original mask, then that isn't a patent issue but a mask rights issue.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection
 
copyright doesn't cover masks because there is no artistic merit to them, but since 1989 you do get rights for up to 15 years to prevent people making copies.
 
The CPU in the NES was produced prior to this coming in and the chip was cloned by NEC(?) de-capping the 6502 and photographing it and then cutting out the bits that were patented (like decimal mode).
 
It seems strange that this type of practice went on. A lot of chips were produced by multiple companies as second sources, because some manufacturers wouldn't buy a chip that was only produced by one company, as they could end up with supply problems. I don't know whether they just had to pay to license the patents.

[Fats]

If you actually want to make a copy of the chip by photographing the original mask, then that isn't a patent issue but a mask rights issue.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection

No, it's both a patent problem and a mask right problem. Because by exactly copying the chip you are also using the patented idea.

[FrenchShark]

Hello,

a yearly fee must be paided to keep a patent (with a maximum of 20 years).
As years pass, the fee becomes more and more expensive.
So, there is a big chance that all CBM patents are expired, even the most recent ones.

Regards,

Frederic

[SpeedGeek]

Bill McEwan said a long time ago Amiga Inc. was a software company. That's probably because they acquired the rights to Amiga OS and nothing more from Gateway... and it's seems very unlikely that Gateway ever acquired anything more than that from the ESCOM bankruptcy.

P.S. According to Franko nobody legally acquired the rights to anything! :lol:

[psxphill]

a yearly fee must be paided to keep a patent (with a maximum of 20 years).

That isn't necessarily true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maintenance_fee_(patent)
 
"Maintenance fees on utility patents in the United States are due 3½, 7½ and 11½ years after grant of the patent.[19] No maintenance fees are due while an application is pending.[20] Design patents and plant patents are not subject to maintenance fees at all."
 
You can also game the system to get more than 20 years, I believe some of the mp3 patents haven't expired yet because of this.
 
 
I doubt old commodore patents are what you need to watch out for with an FPGA Amiga, there are plenty of other patents filed that you could easily violate though (and you don't have to know that they exist to violate them).

[freqmax]

P.S. According to Franko nobody legally acquired the rights to anything! :lol:

So the Amiga ROMs are also "free" now?
(I wonder where the rights to them went)

You can also game the system to get more than 20 years, I believe some of the mp3 patents haven't expired yet because of this.

Do you mean submarine patents?

[psxphill]

So the Amiga ROMs are also "free" now?
(I wonder where the rights to them went)
 
 
 
Do you mean submarine patents?

Amiga roms are still covered by copyright, someone will own them even if the copyright owners go through liquidation as they are an asset that would get sold.
 
submarine patents wasn't the specific method I was referring to, because I believe they tightened that up. But there are other ways that have the same effect. I'm not a patent laywer though.

[freqmax]

ROMs are covered by copyright. But if noone can claim ownership, then no one can sue?

Seems like the chain is Commodore -> Escom -> Gateway -> Amino Development.
The latter then renamed themself to Amiga Inc. And that seems to be where the copyright lies. However it also seems Haage & Partner are the ones that has the actual source code..

[Calimeiro]

Seems only two patents remains now..

Have you read the linked patent claims?

these blockheads claim patents for MOUSE-CLICKING

if these patents get reviewed by the pto they will be deleted immediatly, i'm sure

description in short: " A system that displays something and waits for user interaction (clicking an icon) to display the results." Calling it multimedia doesn't camouflage that this is what Xerox has created the gui for.
Ridiculous by all means.