Why Am I excited about Icaros?

[Einstein]

 :horse:

[Belial6]

The point of Anubis has been stated many times.  AROS has limitation on new features because of it's basic design.  Some of the features would at best not be worth the effort to try to wedge into AROS, and at worst would be impossible to wedge into AROS.

As is always the case, people working for free are going to work on projects that interest them.  So, the developers of Anubis, are either faced with starting a new project, or trying to force AROS into becoming something that other developers don't want it to be.

Personally, while I have no current interest in Anubis, I see the split to be a very healthy move.  The fighting between what various developers was getting very noticeable.  While everybody hopes to keep a happy family under the same roof.  When the parents of a project have grown in different direction, and can no longer get along, sometimes it is best if one of them just moves out.  Everyone will be happier.  The people working on Anubis can reach for newer and cutting edge technology without being stifled, and the AROS folks can work towards it's original goals without people constantly trying to shift it's focus.  On the plus side, it might just mean that we will start getting two Christmases!

For myself, I have no current interest in Anubis, but that does not mean that I won't gain an interest in the future.  What I would want to see from AROS is for it to gain full AmigaOS compatibility, and specifically ported to the 68k so that we have a fully open source classic platform that can run most if not all of our old software.  The goals of Anubis are in direct conflict with this.  If it IS ever achieved though, then AROS will be pretty much done.  That is when I would like to see a functional Anubis with many years of development all ready under it's belt.

[terminator4]

Amiga+Linux???  how boring.  If I wanted Linux, I would do Linux.  I agree with the other post below that Amiga-like Linux is not AMIGA.

DiskDoctor wrote:

persia wrote:

Those who wanted to stay with the goal of a 3.1 re-implementation won and the losing side split.  They started a Source Forge group called ARIX and began talking.  It appears they've taken a more radical  turn and now want to create an Amiga-like Linux.

Amiga-like Linux ain't Amiga-like system. It's a Linux distro.

[Manu]

 :horse:

[ChaosLord]

persia wrote:
AROS ... locks it's developments into the late '80s/early '90s."  

Really?

People used 1280x1024 16 million color workbenches in the late 80's and early 90s?

People ran 2000 Mhz CPUs in the late 80's and early 90s?

People used 3000 MB of RAM in the late 80's and early 90s?

I didn't know any of that happened.  You must know a lot more about computer history than me.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

ChaosLord wrote:

persia wrote:
AROS ... locks it's developments into the late '80s/early '90s."  

Really?

People used 1280x1024 16 million color workbenches in the late 80's and early 90s?

People ran 2000 Mhz CPUs in the late 80's and early 90s?

People used 3000 MB of RAM in the late 80's and early 90s?

I didn't know any of that happened.  You must know a lot more about computer history than me.

He was referring to the absence of memory protection.
Nowadays, this'd impose a gigantic security leak for the whole system.

[stefcep2]

ChaosLord wrote:

persia wrote:
AROS ... locks it's developments into the late '80s/early '90s."  

Really?

People used 1280x1024 16 million color workbenches in the late 80's and early 90s?

People ran 2000 Mhz CPUs in the late 80's and early 90s?

People used 3000 MB of RAM in the late 80's and early 90s?

I didn't know any of that happened.  You must know a lot more about computer history than me.

these are merely hardware advancements.  AmigaOS supported 32 bit color screens in 1280x1024 since the early 90's, like wise 16 (24 bit as well?) bit audio through AHI, and upto 768 MB ram ( at least?).  For a system built in 1983 thats decent, even in todays hardware terms, when you consider how quickly hardware specs become obsolete.

People harp on about memory protection.  Back in the day, the most tangible outcome of this lack on the Amiga was that badly written program could bring the entire system down as each programs could occupy the memory space of another one.  But most programmers learned to write their software so that this didn't happen nowhere as much as you might think.  The security advantages of memory protection are over-hyped as memory protection is no guarantee to a secure system anyway:  Look at every incarnation of windows that has had memory protection: its THE most insecure system on the planet, always needing to be patched to cover this hole and that hole.  The underlying problem is that home OS's like AmigaOS and Windows and MacOS before it became a Unix GUI is that these OS's were never meant to be used on giant multi-suer networks like the internet, and this where most of the security flaws result.  Conversely as a home computer OS the Amiga has huge advantages in ease of usability ( eg you NEVER NEED to open a shell if you don't want, Linux/Unix REQUIRES you to do it at LEAST some of the time), GUI speed, wonderfully-smooth multi-tasking, fast boot up time. Why can't these things be implemented as well in a system with memory protection?  Does memory protection require the sacrifice of these things?  Why does a core2duo running at 2.8 ghz with 3 gig ram stutter to draw a left mouse click menu just because its loading a web page?

There's still a  lot to like about AmigaOS, and computer OS's haven't come forward nowhere near as much as the hardware they run on.  In fact Windows, Mac And Linux OS programmers should be ashamed.

[Tenacious]

Well said.  Memory protection is the dead horse where Amiga is concerned.  My machines make me happy without it.

[persia]

Ok, I was not going to like this, I'd looked at AROS before and wasn't impressed ...but... this isn't just AROS and it's one nice package.  Well done to the Icaros folks.

[NovaCoder]

Yep well done guys, looking more interesting...

[paolone]

Thanks. I just try to make the most of AROS and let you enjoy it without all the "boring" configuration work, just think about getting jewels from raw rock. But it is something every skilled Amiga/AROS user can do: what the underlying technology, AROS itself, still needs, is more addiction from people and developers. I won't ever stop asking for volounteers to port and create applications and driver, since this project has born within the Amiga community, and the best we can do is to support it.

[stefcep2]

Ok so I note there's a LiveCD and vmware distro.

Any recomendations as which to use.

Will it work on a PIII -450 with 128 meg ram?

[cicero790]

Thanks paulone for terrific work as usual. This release was the most stable yet. It rearly freezes.

To my great joy i saw on aros exec that craf had tested icaros on a compaq d51s P4 2 ghz. These baby's sail by on the local ebays for between 40-70 euros at least ones a week. I think I will go for one.

http://www.eolonline.co.uk/compaq-d51s-sff-1489-0.html


@diskdoctor
In one of your first posts you asked if there was something useful that had to be done with programming (if i remember right), so I guess you are a dev. Port Cinnamon to aros or some other word processor. That  would be great. Get hold of a used PC and install icAROS.

@stepcep2
I have seen ppl that use icaros on machines with spec like that but the uae will probably be a bit slow. If you could get hold of the one abowe its warpspeed.

[Manu]

If you want to run it native (the real thing, not a virual PC on your "other" operating system) you should go for Icaros Desktop Live (Link)

I ran the previous versions on a PIII/600Mhz and it was fine but I didn't regret installing it on a  P4 2.7 GHz later. :-D
If you can boot the live CD on it then you'd probably get away installing it too.
Tell us how it goes.

[Fransexy_]

stefcep2 wrote:

ChaosLord wrote:

persia wrote:
AROS ... locks it's developments into the late '80s/early '90s."  

Really?

People used 1280x1024 16 million color workbenches in the late 80's and early 90s?

People ran 2000 Mhz CPUs in the late 80's and early 90s?

People used 3000 MB of RAM in the late 80's and early 90s?

I didn't know any of that happened.  You must know a lot more about computer history than me.

these are merely hardware advancements.  AmigaOS supported 32 bit color screens in 1280x1024 since the early 90's, like wise 16 (24 bit as well?) bit audio through AHI, and upto 768 MB ram ( at least?).  For a system built in 1983 thats decent, even in todays hardware terms, when you consider how quickly hardware specs become obsolete.

People harp on about memory protection.  Back in the day, the most tangible outcome of this lack on the Amiga was that badly written program could bring the entire system down as each programs could occupy the memory space of another one.  But most programmers learned to write their software so that this didn't happen nowhere as much as you might think.  The security advantages of memory protection are over-hyped as memory protection is no guarantee to a secure system anyway:  Look at every incarnation of windows that has had memory protection: its THE most insecure system on the planet, always needing to be patched to cover this hole and that hole.  The underlying problem is that home OS's like AmigaOS and Windows and MacOS before it became a Unix GUI is that these OS's were never meant to be used on giant multi-suer networks like the internet, and this where most of the security flaws result.  Conversely as a home computer OS the Amiga has huge advantages in ease of usability ( eg you NEVER NEED to open a shell if you don't want, Linux/Unix REQUIRES you to do it at LEAST some of the time), GUI speed, wonderfully-smooth multi-tasking, fast boot up time. Why can't these things be implemented as well in a system with memory protection?  Does memory protection require the sacrifice of these things?  Why does a core2duo running at 2.8 ghz with 3 gig ram stutter to draw a left mouse click menu just because its loading a web page?

There's still a  lot to like about AmigaOS, and computer OS's haven't come forward nowhere near as much as the hardware they run on.  In fact Windows, Mac And Linux OS programmers should be ashamed.

 :bow:

[Colani1200]

stefcep2 wrote:
Ok so I note there's a LiveCD and vmware distro.

Any recomendations as which to use.

Will it work on a PIII -450 with 128 meg ram?

Yes, Icaros will probably work on that hardware. Resource hungry stuff like OWB or video playback with Mplayer will not be very fast though. Personally, I'm running Icaros 1.1 on a P-III with 512 MB and it is fast enough for me.

But why philosophise, just give it a try. Download Icaros live DVD and check it out.  ;-)