Redrumloa rocks all kinds of socks

[bigmac]

@all

 Right guys and gals methinks its time to move on and close this  thread. Who'll second this motion.
 :-)

[coldfish]

The Amiga scene is like a very slow train wreck.

Fascinating, in a morbid way.

 :-P

[Tension]

Hold on a second.


We`re all grownups here.  There`s no reason to feel sick just because you read a thread on A.org.  Redrumloa was not asked to leave A.org, quite the opposite actually from what i`ve read!!  If he chooses not to post here any more then that is his decision, and his only.  It`s the same for everyone else here as well.  

My point was that I personally think it`s wrong to inflate hardware prices by reselling / re-auctioning hardware whilst using A.org as a shop front.

Surely its better if things sell for cheaper?!?!?

I cant emphasise enough that it`s nothing personal.  I`m sure he is a nice guy.

[murple]

Tension wrote:
We`re all grownups here.  There`s no reason to feel sick just because you read a thread on A.org.  Redrumloa was not asked to leave A.org, quite the opposite actually from what i`ve read!!  If he chooses not to post here any more then that is his decision, and his only.  It`s the same for everyone else here as well.

Agreed. Yeah some people were being dicks to him. By the same token "I'm taking all my toys and going home!" could be seen as a less than mature reaction as well. Welcome to the internet, please read your flame war introductory manual and grow some thicker skin. From where I sit I don't think either side was especially right or wrong. I have no problem with redrumloa, I don't think his prices are nearly as inflated as some other sellers. I think I bought a part of some kind off him and thought it was a good price. I might again if he were selling something I wanted and it wasn't too much. Shame he left, but he did decide that, so...  I'm not losing any sleep over it.

My point was that I personally think it`s wrong to inflate hardware prices by reselling / re-auctioning hardware whilst using A.org as a shop front.

Could not agree more. I'm really disgusted by the prices people are selling Amiga stuff for these days. There are millions and millions of Amigas out there, and certainly not millions of people who actually want them. I'm sure many of the Amigas being sold for $200 on ebay and elsewhere were bought at yard sales for $5... and my own recent experience with somebody who bought up a bunch of ancient SIMMs in bulk and is now selling off antique 128MB memory for what they might've been worth YEARS ago, ugh. Some Amiga parts are genuinely worth a lot of money, but the common stuff really should not be going for what they do.

*However* - it isn't just the sellers fault here. The only reason they can get away with selling stuff at prices that I can only describe as piracy is because we're willing to pay that. As long as there are suckers who will fork over $300 for an Amiga 2000 with a few cards, people will sell them at that price.

[Ilwrath]

My point was that I personally think it`s wrong to inflate hardware prices by reselling / re-auctioning hardware whilst using A.org as a shop front.

Meh - One person's inflation is another's payment for taking on the risk and hassle of dealing with the Amiga community.  

Red always strived to describe products accurately and ship them quickly and safely.  How many other individuals and vendors can you say that about?  Now, Red didn't make that gear he sold appear out of thin air...  So where did he get it from?  Oh yeah, he took on the risk of dealing with those other vendors.  

Surely its better if things sell for cheaper?!?!?

Not for the sellers...  And, really, not for the market, in general.  If prices drop cheap enough, any hardware that breaks or is not wanted anymore, people will just trash.  If there is a healthy resale market, there's a better chance of preservation.  

You see this in the collector car market.  When a particular type of vehicle has no resale value, no one will bother to rescue or restore one.  As soon as there's some $$ attached, people start pulling them out of fields, barns, and junkyards.

[justthatgood]

All the dealings of the past I've done with Redrumloa have been very fair and decent. I've never even had a signal incident of a compliant that could have.

Matter of fact when I sold a little bit of my Amiga hardware, Red was right there willing to make a good deal. He even advised me when I was basically selling it for desperation rates.

All and all he is a good salesperson. For those of you that complain about the prices of stuff, you should realize that you actually don't NEED that stuff. You just want it. Supply and demand. Command and conquer.

That's the capitalist side of me. I'm more then happy to get my fair share of a dollar. If someone is willing to offer more, I'll take that too.

There I'm not a cut-throat rip you off conservative, but on the same page I'm not willing to be a give all and get none socialist. I have my limits.

[murple]

Ilwrath wrote:

If prices drop cheap enough, any hardware that breaks or is not wanted anymore, people will just trash.  If there is a healthy resale market, there's a better chance of preservation.

Sorry, but that's just absurd. Anybody who is a collector or enthusiast is going to know people want this stuff even if it's cheap... and they're probably not going to throw things away.

People who aren't into Amigas aren't likely to know the stuff is worth anything and will throw things away even if the same item is selling on ebay for $400. To most people who aren't active Amiga users, they're just crappy old computers and are junk. I've gotten quite a bit of Commodore equipment for free or very cheap from people who were just happy to get the crap out of their house and save them the hassle of taking it to the dump.

The fact that some people will pay a lot for this stuff is not saving any hardware. The people who are just throwing the stuff away generally have no contact with the people who are buying and selling on the collector market. They don't know the stuff is worth anything, and probably assume that it's worthless because the computer industry has indoctrinated everybody to equate old with bad.

Some people will take those things for free/cheap and turn around and sell them online for hundreds of dollars. I've gotten things for free or under $50 which I could EASILY have sold for several hundred bucks, but I'm not going to be a douchebag like that. I'd wager that many people who are frequently selling expensive Amiga stuff online are making massive profits on things that otherwise would probably be selling for $10 on craigslist or in flea markets.

Saying these inflated prices are good for the buyer is laughable.

[Ilwrath]

Sorry, but that's just absurd. Anybody who is a collector or enthusiast is going to know people want this stuff even if it's cheap... and they're probably not going to throw things away.

Not necessarily.  I have a broken CS-MK2 in storage.  It's probably repairable, but I don't really want to spend the money.  If the market for a functional one was only $100, I would have chucked mine in the bin, already.  No one would spend the time and money required to repair a cheap item.

But, since the market is above the potential cost to repair mine, I held onto it.  I could still get it repaired in the future, or sell/give it to someone who does.  So, that is one item preserved by market price.  See how that works?

Saying these inflated prices are good for the buyer is laughable.

Not if buyers want to continue to have a market be available.  

[motorollin]

murple wrote:
I'm really disgusted by the prices people are selling Amiga stuff for these days. There are millions and millions of Amigas out there, and certainly not millions of people who actually want them. I'm sure many of the Amigas being sold for $200 on ebay and elsewhere were bought at yard sales for $5...

If an Amiga (or any other item for that matter) is listed with a $5 starting price and sells for $200, whose fault is that?

--
moto

[Plaz]

Saying these inflated prices are good for the buyer is laughable.

Preserving more hardware can decrease the rarity of the item there by keeping the prices down.

If everyone threw away their hardware when they tired of it, then what remained may truely reach "collector" status. Ever see the going price of an Apple I?

If you find valuable hardware and give it away for little or no gain, good for you. I prefer to make something more to help fund my hobby, and I'm not a dueche for doing it. Here's my latest true-life axample.... This weekend some one was giving away broken equipment. Of course I went to snatch it up knowing it was worth more to me or some one else. Also knowing that just the bits and peices were probably worth $75 I offered up $40 to take it away. The seller was happy an suprised to get any thing, and I was happy with the pile of junk. When finished I might make $250-300 on the hardware. But first I have to spend time to clean, repair, test and transport it all. There is also a small cost in the parts I will have to replace. Buying for $40 and selling for $300 may look like MASSIVE profit to some. But after 10-20 hours of time and another $50 dollars in parts.... truely I could make more massive profits working hourly at walmart.

Confusing a hobbiest selling his spare hardware, with a business person with operating cost and taxes to concider is also laughable.

Plaz

[Glaucus]

Wow! You guys, Red is an Amiga.org heavyweight. How did you guys drive him away? I have debated against him on many issues, but never once did I ever question his integrity.

And some of you may not ever agree with this, but it's guys like Red that help maintain value in the Amiga hardware. Keeping the value in the hardware helps keep the community alive. If there was no value, I'd one day throw my A4000 040 with video capture in the dumpster instead of selling it to a fellow enthusiast. Since the valueless A4000 in the dumpster does nothing for the survival of the community, it should be clear that only the high valued hardware can help the community. Keeping the value as high as possible ensures that the old, ancient, obsolete hardware will remain in circulation for years to come. Artificially devaluating will only hurt the community.

  - Mike

[save2600]

I agree with much that has been said here by all members, but it's really sad that some only value things monetarily. This is easily and obviously one of the largest things wrong with the world today. Wacked out value systems (intrinsic especially) and priorities. I could cite example after example of why this "logic" is flawed or counterproductive... only keeping something around because of its inflated (over or not) "value". Think about why you feel this way and look around. Pretty sad you'd throw something like an A4k away because of it's perceived worth to others.

[Glaucus]

I can turn that around and say that if you love the A4000 so much you'd be willing to pay top dollar for it. I know I did when I bought it.

[murple]

Glaucus wrote:
Wow! You guys, Red is an Amiga.org heavyweight. How did you guys drive him away? I have debated against him on many issues, but never once did I ever question his integrity.

I didn't really pay attention to the thread, but sometime in January somebody was selling some kind of Amiga hardware at a good price. Red came onto the thread and made a one sentence post like "Too cheap!" and a bunch of people started giving him crap for encouraging people to sell things at higher prices. It escalated from there and I think some people claimed Red was doing some unethical stuff on AmiBay. Red basically said "screw you guys I'm going home" and that was that. It was all pretty silly.

There was no excuse for Red to yell at somebody for selling hardware cheap.

There was no excuse for people to accuse Red of doing unethical stuff that they couldn't prove.

It was pretty retarded from what I saw of it.

[terminator4]

I personally don't care about this at all.  I don't care if Red is here or gone - its a free country you can do whatever you want.  However, I highly doubt RED is a a.org heavyweight.  Just b/c he posts a lot doesn't mean s**t.  
You could be very stupid and posting a lot - does that mean you're some expert heavyweight? (btw, red is not stupid but not super smart either, maybe to some of you).  Ever see his posts asking for advice/help here?  perhaps that asking for advice and then selling the same item ("fixed") that caused him some unpopular posts.  Perhaps being moderator and seller on this forum also? Again I don't care about him (bad/good) in any particular way.  And if there were personal attacks on him or me - well thats not allowed on a.org.  either way if he/me or anyone does not want to come to a.org to post thats fine.

Glaucus wrote:
Wow! You guys, Red is an Amiga.org heavyweight. How did you guys drive him away? I have debated against him on many issues, but never once did I ever question his integrity.

And some of you may not ever agree with this, but it's guys like Red that help maintain value in the Amiga hardware.

[save2600]

Glaucus wrote:
I can turn that around and say that if you love the A4000 so much you'd be willing to pay top dollar for it. I know I did when I bought it.

Nope sorry, can't relate. I love sex too, but would NEVER pay for it  ;-)  Contextually speaking, top dollar or "bargain basement". lol   And no, we're not going to get into how expensive it is maintaining a human relationship these days...  the Amiga habit would clearly win  :lol:

What I am saying is that people can value something without always having to stick a monetary price on it. Just because I would not pay "top dollar" for something does not mean I intrinsically value it any less.