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Author Topic: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies  (Read 4408 times)

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Offline TenaciousTopic starter

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A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« on: February 08, 2009, 08:12:05 PM »
I have enjoyed the benefits of PFS2 (and AmiFileSafe before that) since it first came out.  I experienced a partition failure some 7 years ago, I believed, because of the iBrowse cache being directed to the iBrowse home directory.  I made some changes in my HD organization, outlined below, that have left me trouble free until now.

Last week, Genesis refused to get online.  I got a warning, like 7 years ago, that indicated a corrupted file system.  Every attempt to access that partition (the one where I store all of my applications) seems to have done more damage.  Now I get "Alert: Wrong index block id".  Diskvalid indicates that there are 0 files on that partition. All other partitions are still accessible.

I suppose I lost one spot on the HD that happened to contain a vital file system address or pointer.  I suppose a virus could be to blame as well.  My overall track record is really pretty good, though, all things considered.  I will now try to find PFS3.3.  It is supposed to include better recovery utilities. Knowledge of files systems (and masks and max transfer) are not my strongest suit. Experienced advice concerning these issues would be welcome.

Most of the applications were backed up on another HD.  What is irreplaceable are some keyfiles, configurations, and 7 years of bookmarks in iBrowse, among other things.  Listed below are some hard drive strategies I have used and will use more fanatically in the future.



Backup everything often! Small keyfiles, and complicated configuration files, often stored only with the app, could be backed to multiple places.  Case in point, I think that the iBrowse keyfile is currently unavailable for any amount of money! CMIIW.

I prefer a number of partitions over one or two large ones.  If one partition dies, the others may still survive.  Several small, bootable partitions (about 100 Megs)are great for choosing between different system configs.  I also like to organize partitions according to writing usage.  Application volumes and mature system installations are not written much. Volumes like MyFiles: and Yam: are constantly having files appended to them. It seems to me that volumes that are written less often should be more reliable.

In general, 4 Gigs is a lot of hard drive for Amiga apps and files.  I have 2 of these partitioned similarly and have backed parts of one to the other.  This helped to save me this time.  I'm going to partition them identically and be more religious about backups.

As mentioned, I like 100 meg partitions for multiple OSes and apps that are always writting new files, like YAM.  Volumes for Apps:, MyFiles: and Archive:, etc are usually sized 700 Megs, the size of a CD, or a multiple of that.  This provides another easy backup option. Also, a normally empty 700 Meg partition is a great place to assemble a CD image before burning.

Use the volume name WORK: with caution.  Many installation scripts look for this volume by default to install everything to.  If a script does not find WORK:, it will usually send requesters asking what your preferences are.  You can then arrange the installation as you choose.

Most browsers write files they create or receive to their home directory by default.  In the case of little jpegs, gifs, etc, from the www, the cache can grow to enormous size in a few months.  Periodically clearing them out and letting them re-accumulate creates a fragmentation problem.  Besides, most of these files never get re-used, they just eat up HD space.  I have plenty of ram, so I cache to it.  When the machine is powered off, the files go to oblivion where they belong.  The performance is much better after a page loads once (the first time is only a little slower).  

That's all I can think of now.  I hope this is useful to other ppl.

 
 

Offline TenaciousTopic starter

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 08:06:52 PM »
Just an update, in case anyone is interested.  

It seems that the other partitions of that same drive, are corrupting as well.  They seem to be fine untill they are written or files deleted, etc.  I think that if this were a virus, the other HD would be affected as well.

It would be interesting to know how PFS2 is threaded into a HD with many partitions.  Why does one effect the others?

I'm considering re-partitioning and re-formatting this drive to see what happenes.  It seems I had to do this 7 years ago, too. In case just one or two bad sectors have developed and caused this chain reaction, how can I map those out?  Will a normal format do this?

I was warned off doing a "low-level format" years ago but can't remember why.

 

Offline yakumo9275

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 08:25:01 PM »
modern drives dont need low level formatting. your drive sounds old enough with a failing history to warrant replacement with a new drive.

I certainly wouldn't be trusting it very much
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Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 08:35:52 PM »
Low-level formatting is for SCSI drives.  This is incompatible with all IDE drives regardless of their age.
 

Offline DoogUK

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 08:39:22 PM »
Quote

SamuraiCrow wrote:
Low-level formatting is for SCSI drives.  This is incompatible with all IDE drives regardless of their age.



Not true, when hard drives used to cost serious money i often bought back unusable IDE drives by low level formatting.
a1200T/040@40/64mb/10 gig/CWB
a600/3.5mb/3.25gb
a1200/blizz 040@40/128mb/4gb compact flash/CWB A4000/40
 

Offline DoogUK

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 08:42:26 PM »
Quote

SamuraiCrow wrote:
Low-level formatting is for SCSI drives.  This is incompatible with all IDE drives regardless of their age.



Not true, when hard drives used to cost serious money i often bought back unusable IDE drives by low level formatting.
a1200T/040@40/64mb/10 gig/CWB
a600/3.5mb/3.25gb
a1200/blizz 040@40/128mb/4gb compact flash/CWB A4000/40
 

Offline hardlink

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 08:51:42 PM »
Quote

Tenacious wrote:
I have enjoyed the benefits of PFS2 ...
 


I use/used PFS 3 for years, and the filesystem always self-destructed. Fast, yes, reliable, no. I, in -over- 20 years of use, have never lost one byte of data because of FFS; bad floppies, yes, bad hard disks, yes, but never to FFS software failure - although I have probably waited, in total, months, for file listings  :-D

As an experiment, I even was able to force PFS failures a few years ago, and documented the results. By that time, there was no place to send the bug report  :-(

And yes, this was the commercial paid-for version from Software Hut.
 

Offline TenaciousTopic starter

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 09:04:41 PM »
These drives are SCSI.  They are getting tougher to find too, especially drives that still have some life in them.

I'm now looking for 2 things: PFS3 and a SCSI CD writer.

When I got frantic about backing those failing partitions, I found my CD writer was taking a dive, too.  Big hairy grin!  I use MakeCD. Anyone have a brand of SCSI CDwriter to recommend that is great?  It seemed that my Ricoh MP6200S was always less than reliable.
 

Offline TenaciousTopic starter

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 09:17:53 PM »
@ hardlink

I'm curious what you did to force a failure, maybe I did something in ignorance (I usually do, grin). Any info about it might educate me.

Along with what you said, this 'feels' like a software failure, not a hardware problem.  This is why I'm willing to try a re-format.  Maybe I'll re-format with FFS.
 

Offline TenaciousTopic starter

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 11:02:33 PM »
Another update.  Running PFS3UD on the corrupted partition revealed a number of iBrowse and I think Genesis files in the Undelete Directory.  It seems a number of files are created in these programs and re-written to an ever-growing size everytime the program runs.  Perhaps this is especially hard on PFS.

It's a shame there is no utility to reconstruct the file system structure since I'm convinced that all of my files are still there, they're simply lost in space.

I'm considering a special partition for apps that behave this way.
 

Offline marcfrick2112

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2009, 03:54:08 AM »
Tenacious: You asked about SCSI CD burners... I have heard good things about Yamaha and Plextor (I have a Yamaha 4x4x16 that while not very fast, is very compatible, works with MakeCD and MasterISO) It can still be hit-or-miss.. A LiteON IDE DVD burner wouldn't work at all in my Amiga, but does fine on my PC. Yet an LG CD burner I bought off EPay for a whopping .99 does fine. SCSI or IDE doesn't seem to matter, either. I had to ditch the SCSI NEC unit originally in my 4000T, because it didn't show up in any burning app...  :madashell:

Somewhere, there is a MakeCD compatability list ... m ight help.
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Marc Frick
---------------
A1200T / \'060, 256MB, CD-R, OS3.9
A4000 w/ WarpEngine / 82MB , OS3.1
A4000 16MB, OS 3.9
A1200 , \'030 / 10MB
A1200 (stock)

CD32 :)

...And a very sick 4000T
 

Offline X-ray

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2009, 11:03:55 AM »
Agree with the SCSI Yamaha. I have that in my A4000T and have burned CDs on there with MakeCd and MasterISO.
 

Offline Erol

Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2009, 01:27:25 PM »
@Tenacious

I had the same problem with the last release of pfs3 about 5 times on my A4000T and that's using a 2 types of scsi drives and even an ide drive,  after speaking to the developers when OS3.9 came out, they advised me to accept the defaults settings using HDToolBox when setting up the drives.. i questioned the settings but they explained how hdtoolbox looks at the drive using it's own calculations.. which are correct even though some people think they are not.  
Also PFS3 doctor i found makes things worse..  

 

Offline TenaciousTopic starter

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Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2009, 01:51:52 AM »
Thanks for the replies.  There are Yamahas and Plextors on eBay now.


@Erol

Yes, it seems that some get unreliable results with PFS and others think it's the best.  It certainly is fast.  What's the reason for the disparity, better knowledge, hard drive brand, etc? Can I use formatting, usage, and parameter strategies to get another 7 years (hopefully more)?

I haven't tried it with floppies yet but am curious about this as well.  I wonder if floppies are more reliable and faster.  What about zip disks?  Has anyone tried PFS with these?
 

Offline Erol

Re: A Cautionary Tale - Hard Drive strategies
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2009, 10:31:25 PM »
@ Tenacious

I would use FFS for your main partition and try using SFS apparantly its more stable than both ffs and pfs3.

I'm sticking with FFS for now..