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Author Topic: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)  (Read 22563 times)

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Offline greenboy

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #74 from previous page: September 10, 2003, 06:03:27 AM »
Tigger, yep. (I could have sworn Amiga LLC was discussed into the ground a few months back - how quickly some [want to?] forget.)
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Offline Waccoon

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #75 on: September 10, 2003, 07:17:13 AM »
Quote
Wain:  I dunno' how do companies manage to stay in debt for over 5 years but still be up and running

That just depends to whom you owe money.  If you owe a bank, then forget it.  Banks don't negotiate.  Investors own a piece of your company, so of course they don't want to run you into the ground.

That assumes they actually release a product FIRST.  If they never release a product, businesses go under pretty quick.  It usually takes 5 years for products to start making money.  The companies that plan for that stay in business, the companies that don't go under.

A lot of it is faith.  If people have faith in your product, chances are you'll have someone willing to loan you money.  Your ideas are your capital.

To get money, you need to deliver a proof of concept.  Give a good presentation, and people will invest.  Personally, I never felt Amiga's presentation of DE was very interesting (the concept was and still is, but their SDK was truly awful).  If you can't get money, it's for two reasons:  your presentation sucks, or your product sucks.

Then again...  coupons, anyone?  (I feel NO sympathy for anyone who bought one).

Amiga did a lousy job of getting investors' money, so they turned to the community with their stupid coupon scam, among other things.  Now they keep everything secret to keep from bleeding more money, but this does absolutely nothing to generate outside interest in their concepts.  At this point, they've already taken pre-payment for several products and have obligations to fill.  Any investor would have to be rock stupid to give Amiga any money.

I don't want any Amiga company to go out of business, but they are to blame for their own financial situation.
 

Offline Spidey

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #76 on: September 10, 2003, 07:23:37 AM »
@Tigger and Greenboy

Wasn't this all discussed in one of Ben Hermans interviews or so?
I still remember something about 'If Amgia Inc. goes bankrupt, will Hyperion go on producing OS4?".
The answer was "Yes", because Hyperion then have the rights of OS4.

But ok, this is what I remember about this all. :-)

Spidey
 

Offline Tigger

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #77 on: September 10, 2003, 07:59:04 AM »
Quote

Spidey wrote:
@Tigger and Greenboy

Wasn't this all discussed in one of Ben Hermans interviews or so?
I still remember something about 'If Amgia Inc. goes bankrupt, will Hyperion go on producing OS4?".
The answer was "Yes", because Hyperion then have the rights of OS4.


Spidey,

It has been discussed alot, Bens position basically breaks down to 2 points.

1) He believes that he has a written a bankruptcy proof contract with AI.
2) Even if they contract if overthrown he believes MAI, will aid Hyperion in buying the Amiga rights in the auction of the IP that will probably result after.

I'll answer the points, as I have with him on this forum as well as others.
1) No US bankruptcy proof contract has ever existed, we have a staff of well over 100 US lawyers who work on our contracts, we do business with other companies who have even more lawyers, again, over 99% of contracts become null & void at a bankruptcy, those that don't are usually not for a liquidation (and AI will be liquidated) and show significant income in relation to debt (the 4.0 contract will never show that).   I

2) MAI is real company, with real stockholders, a real board of directors, and despite Ben's stories, not a whole lot of interest in the Amiga market.   Will they sell us boards??  Sure.  Will they give Ben a million dollars to help him buy IP thats really not worth that to them??  No way.  
 
      -Tig
PS There was a post Amiwest thread on this on Moobunny, that had Ben involved if you want to look at that for more info.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #78 on: September 10, 2003, 08:05:40 AM »
Quote

downix wrote:
@Hammer

From the trademark Amiga in the USPTO, I got an address for them.  Might want to write and ask:

Amiga Development LLC
600 North Derby Lane North
Sioux City SOUTH DAKOTA 57049

Thanks... It seems that the address supplied is near Gateway's home city (recalling)...
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2003, 08:10:35 AM »
Quote

Tigger wrote:
Quote

Hammer wrote:
Quote

Lando wrote:
Amiga Development LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary.  Amiga Inc goes down, it all goes.

Do you have proof that “Amiga Development LLC”’s shares/capital/controling interest are own by Amiga Inc?


Amiga Development LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary of GATEWAY gentlemen.  Its the company formed by gateway in 1997 or 1998 to handle the patents old and new related to amiga.   Amiga Inc does not in any way own Amiga Development LLC, but you dont need to believe me, google it if you dont trust me.  
     -Tig

Thanks for information. But I have already suspected that Amiga Development LLC is a Gateway subsidiary and I only that need some solid information…
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #80 on: September 10, 2003, 08:16:25 AM »
Quote

dammy wrote:
by Tigger on 2003/9/9 23:36:03

Quote
Amiga Development LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary of GATEWAY gentlemen. Its the company formed by gateway in 1997 or 1998 to handle the patents old and new related to amiga. Amiga Inc does not in any way own Amiga Development LLC, but you dont need to believe me, google it if you dont trust me.


Since it's being reported OS4 has Amiga LLC on one of it's screens,  that must mean Amiga Inc never bought the IP from Gateway, just the trademark and hardware and just licensed the rest of it.  Pretty pathetic.  

Dammy

Note that, the "AMIGA and Amiga Logo is a registered trademark of Amiga Development LLC". It seems that both Amiga Inc and Hyperion have a licence of this 'Amiga' name…

The crash and burn of “Amiga Inc” doesn’t change the status of the AMIGA and Amiga logo since they are owned by “AMIGA Development LLC”.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #81 on: September 10, 2003, 08:19:46 AM »
Quote

Tigger wrote:
Quote

Spidey wrote:
@Tigger and Greenboy

Wasn't this all discussed in one of Ben Hermans interviews or so?
I still remember something about 'If Amgia Inc. goes bankrupt, will Hyperion go on producing OS4?".
The answer was "Yes", because Hyperion then have the rights of OS4.


Spidey,

It has been discussed alot, Bens position basically breaks down to 2 points.

1) He believes that he has a written a bankruptcy proof contract with AI.

What happens IF the said contract was also linked with “AMIGA Development LLC”?
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Offline DaveP

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #82 on: September 10, 2003, 08:28:14 AM »
Id like proof first that Tigger knows what hes talking about.

Who is this "we" you are referring to?
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline Seehund

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Re: "Amiga" trademarks
« Reply #83 on: September 10, 2003, 09:33:02 AM »
The only TM owned by Amiga Dev LLC that I could find was one covering "computer magazines."

The "Amiga" trademark for "computer software used to facilitate development of software applications that can run on multiple platforms and other electronic devices; operating system software for personal computers and other electronic devices" doesn't seem to be registered to anybody, but there are two applicants: Bill Buck and Amiga, Inc.

The "Amiga" trademark for computers is registered to Commodore-Amiga, Inc. :)
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Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #84 on: September 10, 2003, 10:17:46 AM »
I've just been thinking this through for a couple of hours.
(No, I havn't read through this entire thread)
The owners of Amiga Inc. can always throw in a bit of their own money.
In fact, one reason to start a company is to make it more difficult for people who are sueing you to get access to your money.
You could have money in other accounts, or owned by other companies, or in trusts.
Plus there are a hell of a lot of other assets.
 

Offline seer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #85 on: September 10, 2003, 11:34:12 AM »
Lots of BS in this thread... I advice people to read the somewhat smaller one on amigaworld.net for some red sided info instead of only this blue sided "I know all" talk.. (Edit; it's the news item; Amiga inc retain Amiga Trademark )

Also, if you have access to the CAM, go read page 3 of Issue 8.. Tigger may be surprised someday...

And don't feel sorry for me Waccoon... I wanted to buy both a Peg and an A1...
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Offline Warface

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #86 on: September 10, 2003, 11:42:17 AM »
Quote
Lots of BS in this thread... I advice people to read the somewhat smaller one on amigaworld.net for some red sided info instead of only this blue sided "I know all" talk..


Care to provide a link, or present the "red sided info" for us humble mortals yourself? Is it something "Fleecy told me and I don't have reason to doubt him" again?
 

Offline Hooligan_DCS

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #87 on: September 10, 2003, 11:52:31 AM »
@Seer
"Lots of BS in this thread... I advice people to read the somewhat smaller one on amigaworld.net for some red sided info instead of only this blue sided "I know all" talk.. (Edit; it's the news item; Amiga inc retain Amiga Trademark )"


You mean this?

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1251&forum=15&2


Yes, very constructive and lengthy discussion of the matter. This is where it should have been discussed. The other topic is a bit different topic, imho.


 

Offline seer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2003, 11:57:05 AM »
Allready edited my first message a bit to make finding the info easier

Care to provide a link, or present the "red sided info" for us humble mortals yourself?

Here ya go oh humble mortal (Not sure why you wrote it like that other then to annoy me?)

Is it something "Fleecy told me and I don't have reason to doubt him" again?

Offcourse, but that's he same as BBRV told me and I love everything he feeds us.

And for your info; I thrust Ben a bit more then some of the people here. And  I believe it when Gary Peake tells us things aren't as bad as it seems but he won't go into details because of lawsuits.. (that was on the Team Amiga mailing list, and  I have known Gary since the golden days of the Amiga when Fido was big as well.. Hell I even know Rich Woods from those days as well)

And also, I couldn't care less about the Amiga Vs Genesi war.. But at least I read both sides of the story and make my own mind up about it and don't force anybody else my choice; IE neither an Amiga One or Pegasos
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Offline seer

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Re: Is this thread for real? (AInc has <$100)
« Reply #89 on: September 10, 2003, 12:04:26 PM »
You mean this?

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1251&forum=15&2


Yes, very constructive and lengthy discussion of the matter. This is where it should have been discussed. The other topic is a bit different topic, imho.


I must admit I was surprissed by the lack of response to that thread...

The other topic is a bit different topic, imho.

You mean the Trademark newsitem ? When falemagn brought the 100 dollar subject up Ben responded to that so it's no longer on topic...
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