Efika OS4.1

[Trev]

@mpvia

Strickly speaking, I can't take the Windows version that came with my ASUS and go install it on another computer.

You're confusing operating system code with OEM preinstallation media and an OEM license. Windows is Windows. Asus has not modified it in any way. What they have done is streamlined the installation of drivers and other third-party applications (yuck), so you don't have to worry about it. Whether or not you can transfer an OEM license of Windows to another computer is for legal scholars to debate and wasn't the point of my message. ;-)

But consider this: if you dislike the licensing terms set forth by a vendor, then refuse to honor them. I'm not talking about mass duplication and redistribution without a license; that's obviously illegal under most circumstances. What I'm talking about is refusing to let Microsoft, Hyperion, or anyone else tell you what you may or may not do with hardware or software you have legally obtained. If I want to write a bootloader, drivers, and whatever else is necessary to run OS4 on unsupported hardware, I'm damn well going to do it. ;-) (Note the so-called infringing use of the Sega Dreamcast swirl on Tux's tummy in my avatar.)

[Rob]

@motorollin

Hopefully now they have released it for the PegII, an EFIKA version will follow.

Rogue stated that the Sam440 is their low end.  Expect the next release for something more powerful than A1 and Pegasos II rather than something less powerful than Sam440.

@Lorraine

But supposing you want to swap machines (stop using the SAM in favour of the EFIKA, for instance). I'm pretty sure there's no law forcing you with retail copies of things to 'embed' it to that machine.

The Efika version of MorphOS 2.x is locked to the MAC address, I also have a game for my GP2X that is locked to the embedded serial number.

@mpiva

Does this mean that OS4.1 for the PegII will also (mostly) work on an Efika? Even if Hyperion won't officially support it, maybe all it needs is some community made drivers for sound and network and such.

CPU and other low level support is built into the Kernel.  The Pegasos II kernel will not work with Efika because it has no MPC5200B support.

[billt]

Buying OS3.1 for an A2000 didn't mean you could just move it over to an A3000 either. A500 version didnt' work on an OS3.0 A4000. A4000 didnt' work on A1200. Because of the diffrent ROM chips and what they needed to do.

The situation isn't quite the same anymore. But it's their product to sell, their choice how to sell it. If you want to try and do something different than the thing you bought intended, if your local laws allow then go tinkering to make things work.

[orb85750]

What can you and can't you do with the most current version of AROS?  What platform & configuration do you use?

nikolaos wrote:
 Well maybe, but there are four versions of it now (Classic/A1/Sam440/Pegasos). Even if you already own OS4, you'd have to buy it specially again for the new platform.

That is exactly what I hate about licensed OS systems.
I also see no future in the ppc platform. that is why I use, and belive in AROS as the only amiga like future system.

[Trev]

CPU and other low level support is built into the Kernel. The Pegasos II kernel will not work with Efika because it has no MPC5200B support

That's an unfortunate design choice--one that will cost them even more in terms of community support down the road, when everyone is forced to buy new copies of OS4. Of course, I'm sure that was a conscious decision on their part. Plus, what does that do to the second-hand market? How do you know which version of OS4 you're getting? Bah.

[mpiva]

Trev wrote:

You're confusing operating system code with OEM preinstallation media and an OEM license. Windows is Windows. Asus has not modified it in any way. What they have done is streamlined the installation of drivers and other third-party applications (yuck), so you don't have to worry about it. Whether or not you can transfer an OEM license of Windows to another computer is for legal scholars to debate and wasn't the point of my message. ;-)

I think you're confused about what I was trying to say. Let me try in your words:

AmigaOS is AmigaOS.  Genesi have not modified it in any way. Unfortunately, what they haven't done is streamlined the installation of drivers and other third-party applications (yay), so you do have to worry about it. Whether or not you can hack a PegII distribution of AmigaOS to an Efika is for legal scholars to debate and wasn't the point of my message. ;-)

You see the only problem is with that phrase "OEM license". And please note, I wasn't referring to the "license", I was referring to the actual files on the computer. The Windows version that came with my ASUS only contains the drivers for that particular hardware and won't work on a different computer.  Sure, I could probably piece together something that works using those files and drivers I download from the internet but how's that different than those people trying to hack together a version of AmigaOS4 for the MacMini using the AmigaOne OS4 distribution.

The way I see it is that, due to current legal issues and the idiotic company that owns the Amiga name, the OEM license and media is currently coming separate from the actual motherboard. Ideally, the motherboard and accompanying AmigaOS version would be released together and sold together but most of this hardware has been on the market long before the OS.

Alternatively, you would seem to rather Hyperion wait a couple years before releasing anything until they ported the OS to half a dozen different platforms and then release a "universal" version of the CD that will work on them all.  Well, I think there are quite a few AmigaOne and SAM owners that are thankful they have not had to wait for such a "universal" CD to come out.

[Trev]

The Windows version that came with my ASUS only contains the drivers for that particular hardware and won't work on a different computer.

That's where you're wrong though. All Windows SKUs, OEM or otherwise, should* come with support for popular hardware (read: drivers submitted by vendors for inclusion in the OS). Any system that works with a retail version of Windows will work with your OEM version of Windows, assuming the drivers and software Asus has bundled fail or exit gracefully when they can't find the hardware they need. (Windows drivers behave like services, and they should just exit cleanly if they don't find supported hardware.) Anyway, you can try it yourself and install your OEM copy of Windows on VMware or Virtual PC.

I was referring to the actual files on the computer. The Windows version that came with my ASUS only contains the drivers for that particular hardware and won't work on a different computer. Sure, I could probably piece together something that works using those files and drivers I download from the internet but how's that different than those people trying to hack together a version of AmigaOS4 for the MacMini using the AmigaOne OS4 distribution.

See above. *It's certainly possible for Asus to remove unnecessary drivers--it's done all the time in the corporate world to speed up the unattended build process (which we lovingly refer to as the unintended build process); however, for a company like Asus that builds hardware and bundles other vendors' drivers (rebranded or not), it doesn't make sense. It takes more effort to remove drivers from Windows, where the installation information for most drivers is integrated into a core set of INF files, than it does to add new ones, which are now just dumped into a directory scanned during setup.

I've only been supporting Windows for about 17 years now, so it's possible my memory of how things work is fuzzy or incomplete. ;-) Or things could have changed in the OEM world. These days, I do as little I can to get the job done, and that often means glossing over information that just isn't relevant to what I'm doing.

Now, all that said, if Asus really has produced an OS CD that only includes Asus drivers, then I have just lost a whole lot of respect for them. What a waste of time and no wonder my new X58 motherboard cost more than 300USD.

Prior to Windows 2000, you had to modify Microsoft's INF files if you wanted to truly integrate your drivers into the OS setup. You could use the OEM setup process, but that just wasn't as cool, and the drivers weren't integrated into NT's standard applets for adding and detecting display, network, sound, and storage adapters.

Anyway, back to OS4. If an OEM wants to bundle OS4 with their hardware and simplify the installation process for its users, awesome. More power to them. But if a user wants to buy an off the shelf copy of OS4 and run it on a supported platform (with vendor-supplied drivers, if necessary), they should not have to choose between five or six identical boxes that may or may not include boot and kernel support for their board.

[mpiva]

@ Trev

First off, please don't lose any respect for ASUS due to my comments.  I was just picking a brand as an example.

Perhaps things are different where you live but where I live computers don't even come with an OS CD regardless of the computer's brand.  I have bought several computers over the past five years for myself, family, and friends and have bought these computers from serveral different outlets.  AT BEST, the computer comes with a RESTORE CD that will restore the hard-drive to "factory settings" (many of these CD's won't even work if you upgrade your hard-drive since they basically only contain a compressed image of the drive).  Many computers don't even come with any CD and just have a secret hidden restore partition of the hard-drive.  If your hard-drive dies, you're screwed.  There are even some that require you to DOWNLOAD the restore CD and burn it yourself after registering online.

And believe me, I've asked, paying a little extra to get an actual Windows OEM CD isn't even an option.  If I want that, I'm forced to buy a full retail copy of Windows seperately.  I haven't found ANY brands that actually include a Windows CD with their computer. The ONLY exception to this is are the few stores that will allow me to build a system from scratch myself or have them build a system for me. (and you have to be careful with those places that will build a system for you as some will try to not included the Windows CD anyway since most customers don't know any better)

[Trev]

Vendors often deliver systems without OS media in the US, too, but you usually have an option to get it. Lawsuits work wonders.