Newtek's VT5 and Amiga OS 4.1?

[AmigaPixel]

 Wow! Nice debate! And I thought this thread had died. My job is done. :-D

[AmigaPixel]

Pyromania wrote:
@bloodline

The software is the key, it is now open source and can be upgraded & ported to MorphOS, AROS & 4.1. Why start over from scratch when you have a blueprint in front of you that is already Amiga code? The ease of use of the interface is still amazing as is the integrated CG, Paint system, FX, ChromaFX & NLE. Not to mention cool 3rd party plug-ins. MorphOS, Amiga OS 4.1 & AROS need video editing software since they have none.

 Very well put, with the open Video Toaster source there is a good foundation to build on.

[AmigaPixel]

 Boy I have been on that tread mill before, all of the hoops you have to jump through to get Amiga animations and videos to PC.  :roll:

[bloodline]

Pyromania wrote:
@bloodline

The software is the key, it is now open source and can be upgraded & ported to MorphOS, AROS & 4.1. Why start over from scratch when you have a blueprint in front of you that is already Amiga code? The ease of use of the interface is still amazing as is the integrated CG, Paint system, FX, ChromaFX & NLE. Not to mention cool 3rd party plug-ins. MorphOS, Amiga OS 4.1 & AROS need video editing software since they have none.

Is it though? We are talking about software that has been out of production for nearly 15 years... I would imagine starting from scratch or porting an Open Source NLE program would be quicker and yield better results. I'm not trying to be negative here, but I'm honestly not sure what value the old VT software has!

[persia]

@Pyromania

Exactly, start with a 21st century video editor and make it more Amiga like.  The Amiga Video Toaster is very old, it needs a ton of improvements, it's hard to work with.  Starting with Open Video Editor you have something that works with and like current technology.

Some things like games age well, other things like video editors do not.

[bloodline]

I'm not much of a Video guy, but Final Cut studio was amazing to use!

To see the struggle ahead using the old VT code, compare "Logic Pro 8", with "C-Lab's Notator"... There is a program with over 20 years development... The difference between where it is now and where it started is insurmountable!!  

[Tomas]

KimmoK wrote:
@persia

You seem to ignore that VT was first on Amigas and it ran very well on 25Mhz Amigas & Z2 & Z3 slots & very little RAM.

But surely it might be too hard to turn WIntel philosophy SW back to Amiga philosophy.

But the new cards have a completely different design. They are designed to be used with high powered wintel computers.
The first cards was designed with Amiga in mind and thus ran fine with very little cpu or memory usage.
I am sure you could get something like that on the sam, but that would mean they would have to make some new toaster hardware and this would never happen as the cost is just too great considering the sam userbase.

[billt]

Open Video Editor is, and even in it's infancy it runs circles around the original Video Toaster software. Video Toasters are for TV stiudios, if you are making Youtube videos or other videos which don't involve a live digital signal you are better off with Final Cut.

What about Cinelerra too?

[persia]

An interesting turn to the discussion.  Yes Amiga Video Toaster ran on Classic Amigas, it actually assisted the AMiga since it didn't really have the power to do the video editing.

Modern Video toaster boards suck CPU like mad.  YOu need one or two Quad Core Xeons to make it fly.  The Amiga Video Toaster software is not going to make these 2000 dollar boards work in an Classic Amiga (or a SAM or Pegasos II for that matter).

The modern video toaster is a speciality device for working with live video streams.

The fact of the matter is that if you want to go forward we have to leave Classic Amigas behind. You aren't going to be able to write a modern video editor like Final Cut and get it to run on Classic Amigas.  

THe old VIdeo Toaster software was a pioneering effort, it went where no software has gone before, but that was 15 years ago, video editing is commonplace and far easier to do.  You can't retrofit the old video toaster software to work like modern programs on modern video.  You need to start over.  

Open Movie editor isn't Final Cut, but it's head and shoulders above Amiga Video Toaster.  Port it and make it more Amiga like.  Once it's ported then you can build on to it.   Maybe give it a new name, Video Pand & SHovel or something...

[Pyromania]

We own Final Cut Pro and find the interface difficult to learn and use compared to VT[5], SpeedEDIT, TriCaster & yes the Amiga Video Toaster Flyer. Even iMovie abandoned their old interface and started over with iMovie 08. Guess what? It looks a lot like the Flyer & SpeedEDIT interface. I hope everyone that is dismissing Amiga VT4000 has actually used one. The Amiga VT Flyer's interface is easy to learn and takes about 20 minutes to master. The look and feel of the Flyer has dated well and would be nice for 4.1, MorphOS & AROS. If open source video editors are ported too that's great. Competition drives innovation.


A lightweight speedy video editor based off the Amiga Video Toaster Flyer source code or with it's interface would be welcomed on operating systems that have no video editing software (4.1, MorphOS, AROS). Does it need every whizzbang feature? No, anyone needing the latest and greatest should get a VT[5] or TriCaster.

[Crom00]

Yes the flyer was really easy to teach. Had 2 systems A4000T's. I used to have interns or freelacners just come in and digitize footage all day and trim the footage for me to edit. I was able to teach them everything they needed to know. Did the same with IMovie too.

Adding a timeline to the Flyer that allowed full control of the audio clips would have been great. I never used more than the your Basic Timeline add on. I know there were plugin solutions, never got around to them.

You know a Toaster Flyer  4000, 3 live cameras, VTR or PC with video out,  A pc laptop with a analog to DV bridge should be able to switch and stream live video via flash medica encoder? pretty cool...

I'd rather use a Tricaster or VT5 though. But I'd also tinker with an open Video Toaster style setup. My whole thing is, that new Amiga hardware (sam440, etc) is ridiculously priced to the point that only the extreme Amiga hobbyist would care. Yes I am a member of that faternity, but I have my limits.

I think it'd make more sense to port it to linux as we'd be able to run it on ASUS EEPC tiny laptops with a USB video digitizer. Now we're talkin'

[persia]

@Crom00

But today things don't need to be digitised.  I haven't seen an analogue source in years.

[bloodline]

persia wrote:
@Crom00

But today things don't need to be digitised.  I haven't seen an analogue source in years.

Exactly! Last week I bought a 1080p camcorder for £130... It records on SD cards... It is cheap, but the quality is exceptional, especially when compared with the £600 SD-res tape based camcorder my father bought only 4 years ago...

The world of digitizers, analogue video and SD resolution is long since behind us now!


-Edit-

Here is a quick YouTube upload that was recorded at 720p 60fps on my new ultra cheap camcorder... The framerate was downsampled to 30fps, and the bitrate reduced from 7MBs to 1.5MBs for Youtube... but you can click on the "HD" link to see how much better even this heavily degraded digital stream from an übercheap camera is better than analogue!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c368ISG6hYE&feature=channel_page

[Pyromania]

@ persia

The Open Video Toaster source code could be updated and adapted to work with digital sources. A Firewire stack already exists for MorphOS, this should be paired with the Amiga Open VT code.

[leirbag28]

@bloodline


Amiga using ToasterFlyer or genlocks or any output to Video, are No longer Analog. they are digital!

And REALLY easy to put on a PC.

Nobody uses Analog Video tape with Amiga anymore.   DVD recorders and DV decks is whats used.   all output becomes instantly digital when its recorded to DVD or DV.   from there you transfer to a Mac via FireWire or to a PC via DVD and rip the file instantly in MPEG2.   Then you can edit on the PC or Mac.

 I use my Plain A1200 with Genlock and ChromaKey and Capture everything in DV or DVD.  Looks Crisp!

and Amiga CAN Do Widescreen 480i at least and possibly 720i

Just put it in 1440x480    or 1440x720 (might require a gfx card)

I do it all the time with SCALA MM300 SuperHires Mode.

then you can get all your stuff in Widescreen.

[persia]

Here's a fun program I just acquired

BoinxTV