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Author Topic: CGX 4 and P96 SDK  (Read 18808 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2010, 07:55:44 PM »
Quote from: warpdesign;551348
Why is everything so closed ?

Most stuff haven't been used for 10 years, isn't used anymore... but still, it must be kept secret :(

I guess I'll never understand... I know it's their IP and they can do whatever they want. But since it could help and interest people I don't get why it's not released for free... They'd have nothing to lose by doing so.

It's because they are arses, that's what I'm saying :laughing:
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Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2010, 08:01:02 PM »
@karlos: isnt it how aros handle it? if you mention its gfx systeb above hal?

the reason of this thread if im not mistaken is that over at eab cosmos puts together his graphics.library replacement. he intends to incorporate gfx support directly into it. i dont know if this is a good idea in first place. i also do not know how he wants to accomplish it. one library for all seems a little bloathed idea. hardware and hw acceleration should be specifically handled by system specific drivers i believe. but i have actually no knowledge of this.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2010, 08:02:38 PM »
Quote from: kolla;551356
It's because they are arses, that's what I'm saying :laughing:


please go ahead, yourself. ;D
 

Offline kolla

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2010, 08:13:10 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;551350
@kolla

I think it's more "political" than that. CGX and P96 have become the respective RTG standards for MOS and OS4, thus all development of each API has become tied to each platform.
Exactly, this is also why I suggest not supporting any of them.

Quote
Nobody ever installed RTG software for it's own sake, rather they installed it to allow them to run all their existing software in higher resolutions and/or greater colour depths.
Not quite correct. There's a trade-off since lots of software doesn't work on RTG, and also because many got graphics card in order to run certain software.

Quote
Just because the developers of the existing standards aren't interested/able to continue support doesn't mean the original motivation behind RTG has gone away. People still want to be able to use higher resolution screen modes with faster refresh rates etc.
Yes, so someone has to reinvent the wheel yet again, since the two previous wheel inventors are such arses :laughing:
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 08:18:52 PM by kolla »
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---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2010, 08:28:42 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;551357
@karlos: isnt it how aros handle it? if you mention its gfx systeb above hal?


Well, my understanding was that the CGX implementation was a thin layer on top of the HAL. Which would imply that to back port AROS's CGX implementation would at least require a fair amount of work.

Quote
the reason of this thread if im not mistaken is that over at eab cosmos puts together his graphics.library replacement. he intends to incorporate gfx support directly into it. i dont know if this is a good idea in first place. i also do not know how he wants to accomplish it. one library for all seems a little bloathed idea. hardware and hw acceleration should be specifically handled by system specific drivers i believe. but i have actually no knowledge of this.


Well, in fairness, most of RTG is something you don't "see". What I mean is that it replaces graphics.library functionality, thereby ensuring that graphics.library calls are sent to the graphics card. The existing RTG implementations do this by patching (AFAIK).

A replacement graphics library might offer the opportunity of doing it a lot more cleanly.
int p; // A
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2010, 08:44:45 PM »
Quote from: kolla;551359
Exactly, this is also why I suggest not supporting any of them.

 Not quite correct. There's a trade-off since lots of software doesn't work on RTG, and also because many got graphics card in order to run certain software.

 Yes, so someone has to reinvent the wheel yet again, since the two previous wheel inventors are such arses :laughing:


wasnt there something like that certain company, product of which i use, have incorporated p96 into support of their product without paying licences in the end? if so i could actually understand tobias alone because of that. since giving away his ip might be used for further support of the product in question and thereby justify injustice that happend to him.
 

Offline kolla

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2010, 08:49:51 PM »
Yes, giving away the P96 SDK would suddenly make all Elbox products work. It took them more than two years to get a working driver for my Voodoo5 card, even with a pirated SDK - how could releasing the SDK help them?

And yes, Elbox are huge arses :laughing:
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 08:55:12 PM by kolla »
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---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
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A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
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CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
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Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2010, 09:15:06 PM »
well, not likely but lets assume some third party mad activist like cosmos suddenly issued a proper driver?
 

Offline Piru

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Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2010, 09:18:09 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;551376
well, not likely but lets assume some third party mad activist like cosmos suddenly issued a proper driver?

How would that be possible considering Elbox doesn't give out any HW documentation?
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2010, 09:21:22 PM »
open pci?
 

Offline Piru

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Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2010, 09:29:48 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;551378
open pci?
OpenPCI doesn't support mediator.
Quote
Information: The mediator support of a well-known company is definitively canceled because of their poor developer policy and their questionable attitude towards customers.

Quote
Elbox was very clear when they did their menaces. They allow him to write drivers for mediator, but not to write something like openpci. Even if this can give them more drivers later. It's nice to see the same driver running on all the differents bus. Titan's rtl8139 driver is even currently developped on a mediator1200. But openpci will not be released for Mediator, so no rtl8139 driver for Mediator in the final release. Same thing for the OCHI USB drivers, nothing for Mediator. Elbox doesn't allow it.

The obvious reason Elbox doesn't want this is that they sell expensive kits of (modified) common PC hardware and drivers tied to this hardware. OpenPCI would kill this market for them.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 09:32:01 PM by Piru »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2010, 09:40:56 PM »
according to this thread openpci supports mediator at least partly:
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18257

(the thread is in german but note benjamins quotes are in english if you scroll down)

i ve nerver seriously tried it but there should be several drivers that work, but no gfx card.

also i know at least one 3rd party developing (experimental) drivers for mediator like for scsi adapter and such. ive ben asked to test it although have had no time yet. i dont know what agreement this is based on.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2010, 09:45:06 PM »
Quote from: Piru;551379
OpenPCI doesn't support mediator.




The obvious reason Elbox doesn't want this is that they sell expensive kits of (modified) common PC hardware and drivers tied to this hardware. OpenPCI would kill this market for them.


this is dumb tactics of course, they most likely would sell much more units if there were more pci drivers for different extentions writen by 3rd party devs :(
 

Offline kolla

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2010, 09:53:32 PM »
I doubt Elbox sell anything these days.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2010, 10:01:15 PM »
they might be selling rebranded microwaves as we speak

(dont underestimate us, polish people)
 

Offline tone007

Re: CGX 4 and P96 SDK
« Reply #44 from previous page: April 04, 2010, 10:14:27 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;551386
they might be selling rebranded microwaves as we speak


Could be!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270542002903

..yes, I bought two, and I would buy a Commodore microwave.
3 Commodore file cabinets, 2 Commodore USB turntables, 1 AmigaWorld beer mug
Alienware M14x i7 laptop running AmigaForever