Interested in this hand-held device?

[Bobsonsirjonny]

 GP32 Key Functionalities

Multiplayer Wireless Game (local communication)
GP32 boasts cutting-edge Wireless Radio Frequency Technology that delivers
Reliable Multiplayer gaming (2.4GHz ISM band)
- GP32 uses radio signals to communicate through solid barriers such as a building (unlike infrared signals that require an unobstructed line of sight to make a connection), you can play games even when your lovely puppy is standing in front of you wagging his tail, blocking your view.
- Real-time Multiplayer game can be enjoyed by up to 4 different GP32s per channel and a maximum of 4groups can each play different games together.

Multimedia Player
GP32 delivers a significant consumer experience for viewing digital multimediacontent on the GP32 platform.GP32 can support content delivered in various media formats.
- GP 32 offers a powerful integrated Viewer to view text, image and E-book files.
- GP32 MP3 Player boasts its 44.1Khz 16bit Stereo Sound / 4 Channel Wav Mixing 16 Poly S/W MIDI Support / Earphone Port / 2 Speakers

PC connectivity System
GP32 coes with USB port connection cable accessory. It allows you to connect itto your PC and your local ISP so that you can swap multimedia content delivered in various media formats (MP3 files, image files, text files and etc.)

[Bobsonsirjonny]

Gameparks site (the makers of the GP32)

Hope this is of help :-)

[Bobsonsirjonny]

BTW - the CPU in the GP32 as a rule is underclocked for battery life :-)

But some EMU's provide a throttle - and most actually run safely at 150Mhz. Some have been able to go at 170Mhz - but this is rare.

Most are actually able to do 150Mhz.

[downix]

@saimo

From what I read, your custom chip work could be fit into a $5 Xilinx Spartan II.  I have several here from my own custom chip work and I've fit much more complex beasts into one.

[saimo]

@Bobsonsirjonny

First of all, thank you very much for all the detailed info you retrieved for me!

Second... WOW! That GP32 really rocks!

Third, about the capability of running the emulation of MOM on the GP32: surely that beast can run the emulation much faster than any MC68k+AGA Amiga can do, but still I don't think it can do it at full speed.

The main reason is that MOM has 32 masked Graphic Objects (GOs), which can be moved, scaled and flipped freely at each rasterline.
This means that:
 - at every rasterline, the machine has to retrieve all the 32 descriptors of the GOs and calculate the starting addresses of graphic data and mask and the fetch "step" for each of them;
 - at every pixel, the machine needs to read up to 32 bytes of mask data, to decide which is the GO that the frontmost pixel belongs to and to perform collision detection (this holds assuming that no transparency feature exists, in which case the data fetch rises to 64 bytes/pixel - I'm saying this because the current emulator (MOMiga) does have a particular transparency feature, although, for now, I've decided not to put it in MOM's feature list); finally, it has also to read the value of the chosen pixel and write it in the video buffer.
All this, of course, should happen in sync with the raster drawing on screen in order to achieve a full-speed emulation.

Another crucial point is CPU emulation: that's something that does take a lot of processing power.
Other non-trivial points are the emulation of the rest of the chipset (audio, at least, should not be a big issue).

Apart from all these technical considerations (which could also be (partially) wrong, as I'm not an electronic engineer and I don't know where today's state-of-the-art technology has arrived), I'm still wondering... would it be worthwhile? :-? You see, that GP32 must be really cool, so what's the point? I (as everbody else, I'd bet) would prefer producing native applications for that machine!

Uhm... your point is still quite interesting indeed, so I guess I'm gonna put this in the FAQ ;-)

Regards,
saimo

[saimo]

@downix

If that was possible, that would really be a dream, actually ;-)

Seriously speaking, I don't know that chip and, as I said in my previous post, I'm not an electronic engineer, so I may well be wrong.
Assuming that you are implicitly referring to the video part of MOM (which is the most demanding one), the more I think of it, the more I wonder... is it really possible that such a cheap and standard, non-specialized chip can handle such a large, non-burstable, memory data transfer, with all the calculations associated to it?
Are you really sure?
You seem to have experience in the field, so can I ask you to evaluate deeply this possibility? - in practice, I'm asking you to read the full info on the site, watching the deMOMstration and reading the MOM developer's manual (what? No, thanks... as for the coffee, I can help myself ;-) ) to get a precise idea: I know this is quite an effort, so feel free to ignore my request.

Regards,
saimo

[Bobsonsirjonny]

@ Saimo,

Actually its quite the contrary - whilst native stuff does get written for the GP32, many people prefer to code for an emulator for it - to bring back old memories.

There are commercial outfits developng games and apps for it - but most of the stuff is open source, and home brew. The best way of thinking about is is a hardware version of Amiga Anywear. They are designing the GP64 as we speak - maybe you should have a word with them.

The GP32 already has an Atari ST emulator which is so much faster than the origional machine.. Best thing for you to do would be to head over GP32x.com and post in the dev section. Its a great community - like what we used to be like in the good old days. Many people are still learning, and its free from the company fighting.

BTW another good thing about the GP32 is you can rip the lid off and get under the hood - many people are building custom expansions etc... maybe your custom chips could be added?

[downix]

@saimo

I've implimented similar video systems in the Spartan II before.  There are similar chips from Altera as well.  Would you like me to set up a gate estimate for you, so you'll get an idea how large a chip to look into?

[saimo]

@Bobsonsirjonny

@ Saimo,

Actually its quite the contrary - whilst native stuff does get written for the GP32, many people prefer to code for an emulator for it - to bring back old memories.

Yea, I know this, and it does make sense!
But, instead, nobody ever has heard of MOM before, so it's not the same thing: why undergoing the hassle of writing a virtual machine for a real one which is already extremely nice? I would be the only one to care!

There are commercial outfits developng games and apps for it - but most of the stuff is open source, and home brew.

I must say that the GP32 has a strong appeal... but I don't have the time nor the money now.

The best way of thinking about is is a hardware version of Amiga Anywear. They are designing the GP64 as we speak - maybe you should have a word with them.

I guess it's going to be backward compatible, that is, my ideas would not fit into their schemes. :-/

The GP32 already has an Atari ST emulator which is so much faster than the origional machine...

I don't argue that it's impossible emulating machines at full speed and more... that depends on the emulated machine!

Best thing for you to do would be to head over GP32x.com and post in the dev section. Its a great community - like what we used to be like in the good old days. Many people are still learning, and its free from the company fighting.

It sounds like a very nice place... but... what would I have to say, there? Try figuring the scene... at a certain point, an unknown dude pops in and says: "Hey, I've got a totally different machine..." - nobody would care, and I'd surely be suggested that I leave for a more suitable place.

BTW another good thing about the GP32 is you can rip the lid off and get under the hood - many people are building custom expansions etc... maybe your custom chips could be added?

Oh well, how could I tell that? - but, yes, I doubt this, too.

Let me add just one thing: of course any MOM emulator on any platform is more than welcome... I surely don't intend to stop anybody who is willing to take the job! This of course includes the GP32, too, so I strongly want this to be clear!
The opinions I expressed here are just to say that, curiously, I find that a GP32 emulator is the most pointless - so it's not something I'm doing in first person (as explained, at that point I'd prefer writing native apps).

Regards,
saimo

[saimo]

@downix

Well, if it's no effort to you, why not?
But, let me ask again, have you considered all the aspects of my architecture? (please don't take this as a hint at incompetence)

Regards,
saimo

[downix]

@saimo

This is based on a brief glanceover.  I'd be glad to look it over in more depth later on after work.

[saimo]

@downix

OK, take your time.

Thanks,
saimo

[Bobsonsirjonny]

@ Saimo,

I dont think that it is so pointless. Its a handheld device, emulating your handheld. The point being at the moment emulators are targetted for desktops - and therefor you dont have the benefit of it being a handheld.

The GP32 if anything could serve as a development "board" to help you iron things out. And the attitude in the GP32 community is not one of "why? - thats pointless" but one of "Why not - lets do it just because we can" Some really dumb, useless things have come about - just because it could be done. Likewise some really useful things have been built just because it could be done.

If it can be done, somone will do it :-) All you need is sufficient spin to attract em :-)

[Dr_Righteous]

@saimo

Using PLDs as downix suggested is as simple as defining the logic needed to decode the video output, using a language such as VHDL... Then burning the logic to the chips.

Taken from the perspective of binary data conversion, hardware is infinitely simpler to build than software, IMHO. Each chip meerly converts one set of binary data into another, and so on.

"This is what I have, this is what I need... Hey chip, this is how to change it!"

[saimo]

@Bobsonsirjonny

OK, let's try!
And, since you seem to know the GP32's scene quite well, do you think that posting a similar manifesto would be good enough?

Regards,
saimo

[saimo]

@Dr_Righteous

Uhm... I must say that I have many doubts: you see, we're not talking about a scandoubler... handling those Graphic Objects is quite complex and I don't think it's just a matter of programming a general-purpose chip... in MOM it's like having 32 framebuffers (or rasters or pixmaps or whatever you want to call them) which require masking, flipping, resizing and collision detection!
Anyway, if it's actually possible, I'm glad of it :-)

@all

The ideas that you are throwing at me here are very much appreciated, but all of them need careful evaluation: since I don't have the complete knowledge to do it, I have to request that you understand fully the MOM architecture, which can only be done after watching the deMOMstration and reading the manuals... but, of course, it's just for those who actually want to spend (or waste ;-)) their energies on my project.

Regards,
saimo