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Offline saimoTopic starter

Interested in this hand-held device?
« on: September 07, 2003, 08:12:27 PM »
Hello everybody!

It is a tough challenge, but I am trying to be concise.



PREAMBLE (just to give an idea of how concise I am going to be...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is years now that I am working on a hand-held device, whose foremost
aim has always been... pure FUN.
Now it has grown so much that I think it is about time to share this fun
with the world.

Currently, its only tangible implementation is an emulator for the classic
Amigas - I *love* the Amiga - and that is why I am posting here.

I am searching for enthusiast M68k coders who want to have some real fun
programming a really cool piece of "hardware" (obviously this is just my
humble - and biased - opinion).
Of course I would be glad of knowing of happy users, too - there is little
point in having a platform without users, right?
Lastly, I will not slam the door in the face of any company interested in
pulling out a real piece of hardware :) - but, frankly, I do not even dare
to dream of this as a real-world possibility. A more sensible one would be
the development of emulators for other platforms - welcome as well, of
course ;)

Let's have a look at what I am offering, without diving into technical
details - there are large .guides for that and I want to concentrate on
the fun part here.



WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The device is named "MOM" and can be looked at as yet another GameBoy-like
console.
Why does it exist?
Simple: I wanted to have *fun* =)
Both developing it and developing _for_ it.
I wanted a device which was easy and funny to hardware-hit; I wanted a
device which was as much coder-oriented as possible, but still powerful
and flexible. So in 1998 (or maybe even 1 year before) I came up with some
design sketches and since then I never stopped working at this project...
... if only I could have worked on it constantly, the release date would
have come much before! - it is quite late, indeed.

I see I am getting lost, despite my initial promise.
Sorry, I just can not resist.

Among its features you can find:
 - an MC68030 CPU
 - a video architecture entirely based around the concept of extremely
   flexible and powerful sprites (scalable, flippable, etc.)

For a complete overview of the system I strongly advice to read the
"MOM - developer's manual" and watch the "deMOMstration", an application
that actually runs on the device itself and that shows some of its key
features.



RELEASE/DISTRIBUTION INFORMATION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am releasing it only now because:
 - finally  both the general design and the emulator are in a very
   advanced stage
 - finally the emulator has been tested on 060 (totally developed on a
   humble - yet loyal - 030)
 - finally there is a little application (the "deMOMstration" mentioned
   above) which *visually* illustrates many features of the device - so
   you do not have to wade through large technical manuals (that do exist)
   to get the idea: all you have to do is spending 10 minutes of your life
   sitting & watching
 - finally I have some free time to dedicate to potential requests - I got
   my Computer Science degree just a few weeks ago and so I will be free
   in the near future (ooops! this is now outdated by far, as I lazily
   spent the last 2 months happily doing a lot of other unrelated
   activities :p)

The distribution packages (just ~500 kb in all) include:
 - MOM developer material: documentation, includes, tools, etc.
 - MOMiga: MOM emulator for the Amiga
 - MOS: an OS for MOM (comprehensive of development stuff)
 - deMOMstration: MOM+MOS application that shows some of the key features
   of MOM
 - MEMOU: MOM+MOS (little) game

To get everything to work, it is enough to unpack the archives, CD in
the directory chosen and launch the script "go_d" to see deMOMstration
or "go_M" to play MEMOU.
No writes to HD will occur (unless you explicitly specify to save the
memory card to HD).

The whole package is e-mailware: if you use it, you *must* send me an
e-mail.
Any _commercial_ use or product based on any or all of its parts is
strictly *prohibited* if not explicitly authorized by a written agreement
with me.



IMPORTANT NOTES ABOUT THE EMULATOR (MOMiga)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- it requires an Amiga with at least a 030, AGA and native graphics
  output - i.e. redirection through scandoublers or graphic-cards is
  likely to produce bad visuals (this is due to the fact that it uses
  SHRES screens)
- only rather old versions have been tested on 040 - I have no clue
  whether it still works on that CPU, but it should
- it has not been tested on NTSC machines and some parts do not take into
  account NTSC timings - yet, it should work anyway
- it is a very complex piece of code: I did my very best to make it as
  clean as possible and actually it works perfectly on my machine and on
  some 060-equipped Amigas that 2 friends (hello, Timo & Richard!) used
  for beta-testing - but beware of patches! Some (combination?) of them
  could cause problems (in which case, it should be enough to reboot
  without startup-sequence and run it after just SetPatch)!
- it can *not* work on UAE because it requires an MMU, which AFAIK is not
  emulated yet



HOW CAN YOU PUT YOUR HANDS ON IT?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simply surf to http://saimobvq.interfree.it/MOM/index.html and download
all the archives.
There you will find also a lot of other interesting information.

For comments, requests of clarification, flames and anything else, write
to saimobvq@interfree.it .



SUMMARY OF AREAS OF INTEREST
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

- development of applications (which I use to call "cartridges")
- development of emulators for other platforms
- development of some specific parts of MOS (for now just data packing
  and .mod replay routines (and maybe IEEE math routines))
- adaptation of include files for more programming languages
- porting of support tools to other platforms
- betatesting
- development of the real device ;)

If you are a developer and want to start a MOM project, choose the 4-byte
ID that will mark all of your productions: this way I can make an official
and public list of developers.

Despite the focus of this section is on development, the most important
role is played by... users! The more, the happier I am.
Of course, I do not expect many users to be attracted right now that there
is only a simple game and a technical presentation.
Anybody willing to help me create a user base? ;)



WANT TO KNOW MORE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, then why don't you have a look at the deMOMstration? ;)
Seriously, believe me: it is worth a thousand words.

Thanks for reading this far.

Best regards,
saimo



P.S. I am searching for a job...
     As you may imagine, I would love to develop for a hand-held device...
     not to mention that working with a good team on a GameBoy or GP32
     title would make me sooo happy...
     ... any offers?
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC
 

Offline Framiga

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2003, 09:08:18 PM »
@saimo

Funny :-)

just downloaded and tested . . . it works fine on my A4000/040 and OS3.9BB2.

Interesting work!

Ciao
 

Offline saimoTopic starter

Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2003, 09:28:23 PM »
Ciao!

Thanks for taking the time :-)

Glad to know that it works under that configuration: only old versions of the emulator have been tested on an A4000/040, so I could not grant it would work.

Yet, I'm a bit concerned about speed: unluckily the A4k bus speed is rather low, so it turns out that my A1200+Bz1230 is much faster  :-o

Anyway, I'm happy you had fun, that's the main point of the whole project  ;-)

Regards,
saimo
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2003, 09:33:44 PM »
Quote

saimo wrote:
Yet, I'm a bit concerned about speed: unluckily the A4k bus speed is rather low, so it turns out that my A1200+Bz1230 is much faster  :-o


Are you referring to the memory bandwidth?

Is the fast ram memory on the motherboard? 4000 desktop systems have a real bottleneck there, memory access takes ages.

If you can get any kind of second hand accelerator to replace the 3640 card (and take the memory directly) you will see a big improvement, even for those that simply transplant the existing CPU.
int p; // A
 

Offline Framiga

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2003, 09:48:35 PM »
@saimo

Yes effectively, is a bit slow here also (with memory on mobo)

Ciao

PS- . . .siamo italiani e ci scriviamo in inglese :-)

 

Offline saimoTopic starter

Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2003, 11:54:27 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Quote

saimo wrote:
Yet, I'm a bit concerned about speed: unluckily the A4k bus speed is rather low, so it turns out that my A1200+Bz1230 is much faster  :-o


Are you referring to the memory bandwidth?

Is the fast ram memory on the motherboard? 4000 desktop systems have a real bottleneck there, memory access takes ages.


Yes, I meant exactly that.
I'm well aware of that problem, because when I had an A4000/040@25 temporarily under my hands (to write the MMU handling code), emulation always resulted slower by 5-10 FPS compared to the A1200/030@50, and most of that difference was made just by the slow FAST RAM access/bandwidth.
Now I can work on an A4000/060@50 and the speed gain is very noticeable; though, there the real beast is the bottleneck of CHIP RAM.

Quote

If you can get any kind of second hand accelerator to replace the 3640 card (and take the memory directly) you will see a big improvement, even for those that simply transplant the existing CPU.


Yes, sure... only that it's not me the guy with the A4000  ;-)

Regards,
saimo
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC
 

Offline saimoTopic starter

Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2003, 12:00:52 AM »
Quote

Framiga wrote:
@saimo

Yes effectively, is a bit slow here also (with memory on mobo)


Yep, unluckily that's due to the A4k bus :-( (see the other posts in this thread)

Quote

PS- . . .siamo italiani e ci scriviamo in inglese :-)

Lo so, e' una specie di gioco da scemi, ma questo e' un sito internazionale!
-
I know, it's a kind of fools' game, but this is an international site!

Ciao,
saimo
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC
 

Offline Bobsonsirjonny

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2003, 12:04:27 AM »
This HandHeld sounds a lot like the GP32 in spirit. Hardware is different - the GP32 being more powerful.. Many People are developing emulators for the GP32.

You want this thing as a portable games hardware.. how about writing an EMU of it for the GP32?

www.gp32x.com

www.gp32zine.com

These places have info on it. Its a very capable handheld - and can run almost anything!!!!

Seriously - your idea would work excellently on this handheld :-)
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2003, 12:15:25 AM »
Will take a look, sounds interesting!
I like Amigas
 

Offline Dr_Righteous

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2003, 12:34:17 AM »
You know, it sounds like the Amigo computer could be modified somewhat to suit the specs of the hardware required for an actual MOM device. Or vice versa.

It can be found HERE...
- Doc

A4000D, A3640 OC-36.3MHz, custom tower, Mediator A4000D. Diamond Banshee 16M, Indivision AGA 4000, GVP HC+8.

Mac Mini 1.5GHz, that might run MorphOS someday, when the fools who own it come to the realization that 30 minutes just isn\'t enough time to play with it enough to decide whether or not you like it enough to cough up $200.

 - Someone please design SOME kind of DIY accelerator for the A4000. :D -
 

Offline saimoTopic starter

Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2003, 12:35:00 AM »
Quote

Bobsonsirjonny wrote:
This HandHeld sounds a lot like the GP32 in spirit.


Really?
I've read the news about the GP32 some months ago, but could not bother to learn about its architecture.
But yes, your point is right, in fact I really got excited about that device... if I only had the money... :-(

Quote

Hardware is different - the GP32 being more powerful..


Oh, sure.
The "power" of my system is not in high specs, but rather in flexibility, freedom and ease of programming (I can't really find the right words).
Brutal power is only contempled in DAD ;-)

Quote

You want this thing as a portable games hardware.. how about writing an EMU of it for the GP32?

www.gp32x.com

www.gp32zine.com

These places have info on it. Its a very capable handheld - and can run almost anything!!!!

Seriously - your idea would work excellently on this handheld :-)


I'm sure you'll have a hard time in believing me - and maybe you'll even laugh in my face - but I really doubt that the GP32 is capable of running the emulation of MOM at full speed.
As I said, I don't know any detail about the architecture - and so the specs - of that machine, but what I know is that the MOM architecture is extremely demanding (and that's why it is just an "ideal" device), especially as for the video part: that a hand-held device is capable of emulating another hand-held device that could well be unfeasible as a real piece of hardware... well, seems pretty incredible ;-)

OK, you know what?
I'm having a tour at the links you provided, hoping to find some precise architectural info so that I can answer better.

Ah, another thing... it seems a bit pointless to me emulating a non-existing hand-held device on another hand-held (which, instead, does exist), unless the emulated one turns out to be better that the emulating one... which I also strongly doubt: sure that GP32 must be a nice machine and surely it has many (if not all) better aspects... I don't really know... well, really time to surf to those pages ;-)

[EDIT]
I've just been at www.GP32x.com and I could find the link to the developer's manual, which I don't have the time to read now (gotta sleep!), so no info gathered.
Can anybody tell me in two words - oh, well, numbers ;-) - the memory<->CPU bandwidth and the CPU clock speed?

BTW: at first glance, it really seems an excellent platform!
[/EDIT]

Regards,
saimo
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC
 

Offline saimoTopic starter

Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2003, 12:51:55 AM »
@Dr_Righteous

Just been there.
That's actually another admirable effort by a smart guy who has passion pumping thru his veins.

Unluckily, twisting MOM into an Amigo or viceversa in not trivial at all, because Amigo seems to be made of standard components whereas MOM requires some custom chips (ouch! :-P) that, I suppose, are quite a challenge to design and build for anybody, even big companies like Nintendo and Sony.

Regards,
saimo
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC
 

Offline Bobsonsirjonny

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2003, 01:31:38 AM »
Dimension/Weight     147mm X 88mm X 34mm(163g)
Display    3.5" Reflective TFT LCD(65,536 concurrent colors)
Resolution    320 X 240 pixel
CPU    32-bit RISC CPU(ARM9)
RAM    8MB SDRAM
ROM    512K
Sound    44.1Khz 16 bit Stereo Sound / 4 Channel Wav Mixing, 16Poly S/W MIDI Support / Earphone Port / 2 Speakers
External Storage Medium    Smart Media Card (SMC)
Wireless Multiplayer Gaming    4-Channel RF Module
PC Connection    USB Port Connection
Power Supply    2AA batteries (12 hours use time between charges) / DC 3V Adapter
Option    Rechargeable Battery
Controls    8-way directional pad (joystick) + Durable 6 key button
MP3 Capability    MPEG ( Ⅰ, Ⅱ) Audio Support
Other Add-on Applications    Image Viewer, Text Viewer, Media Player, E-Book Viewer
RF Module    2.4GHz ISM Band
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Offline Bobsonsirjonny

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2003, 01:32:24 AM »
 GP32 Technical Features

The World’s Most Powerful 32-bit Handheld Console(using ARM9 Handheld Console (using ARM9 Processor)
- High-performance
- High-Definition Graphic, Superior Stereo Sound Quality

The World’s First Handheld Console Implementing Wireless RF Technology
- Uup to 4 modules can use any of the 4 channels available on the RF module to play against each other within 10 meters of a line of sight

Digital Multimedia Entertainment Like No Other
- A variety of add-on applications enable digital multimedia content including Music Videos, MP3, Moving Images, Text and Images
The REAL BOBSON - accept no immitations!

8 Bloody Tickets!
http://amigadevbox.happybiscuit.com/

http://www.killingwithkindness.com/

Some of my drawings
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Offline Bobsonsirjonny

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Re: Interested in this hand-held device?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2003, 01:32:58 AM »
 GP32 Key Functionalities

Multiplayer Wireless Game (local communication)
GP32 boasts cutting-edge Wireless Radio Frequency Technology that delivers
Reliable Multiplayer gaming (2.4GHz ISM band)
- GP32 uses radio signals to communicate through solid barriers such as a building (unlike infrared signals that require an unobstructed line of sight to make a connection), you can play games even when your lovely puppy is standing in front of you wagging his tail, blocking your view.
- Real-time Multiplayer game can be enjoyed by up to 4 different GP32s per channel and a maximum of 4groups can each play different games together.

Multimedia Player
GP32 delivers a significant consumer experience for viewing digital multimedia content on the GP32 platform. GP32 can support content delivered in various media formats.
- GP 32 offers a powerful integrated Viewer to view text, image and E-book files.
- GP32 MP3 Player boasts its 44.1Khz 16bit Stereo Sound / 4 Channel Wav Mixing 16 Poly S/W MIDI Support / Earphone Port / 2 Speakers

PC connectivity System
GP32 coes with USB port connection cable accessory. It allows you to connect it to your PC and your local ISP so that you can swap multimedia content delivered in various media formats (MP3 files, image files, text files and etc.)
The REAL BOBSON - accept no immitations!

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http://amigadevbox.happybiscuit.com/

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Some of my drawings
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