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Offline zylesea

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2009, 12:22:09 AM »
@ adolescent
Quote

Then you really shouldn't upgrade.

1GB RAM is <$10 these days.  Plus, we're not talking AmigaOS here.  It's not just the "OS" that is running on the 1GB of RAM (think extras that you add to the OS like networking, USB stacks, filesystems, etc.).  If you want to see what a stripped down Windows OS really needs look at XP FLP, or XPE.  

Plus, 1GB RAM is <$10 these days.  Seriously?


Tell me how to get 1 GB Ram for $10 for e.g. my 7 years old PIII laptop which still is fine and running?
Don't tell me about cheap prices, Lucky me has enough funds to purchase all this stuff. But I don't like to. It is just a resource wasting. It's exactly that attitude which is driving the global ecologic crisis.
Furthermore I'd like to point out that e.g. MorphOS runs quite well on my 400 MHz/128MB RAM Efika (and tell me how to get 1 GB for that for $10). It starts usb stack, network, 3d accelerated gfx, some file systems and a lot of other stuff. And since many of you don't consider an Amigaish system as a serious system, let me tell you that my QNX setup also requires very low resources.
The way to compensate for bad system design by increasing hardware power is not curing the prob, but dealing with its symptoms. And that is simply not sustainable nor a smart way.

Offline stefcep2

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2009, 01:03:12 AM »
Quote

zylesea wrote:
@ adolescent
Quote

Then you really shouldn't upgrade.

1GB RAM is <$10 these days.  Plus, we're not talking AmigaOS here.  It's not just the "OS" that is running on the 1GB of RAM (think extras that you add to the OS like networking, USB stacks, filesystems, etc.).  If you want to see what a stripped down Windows OS really needs look at XP FLP, or XPE.  

Plus, 1GB RAM is <$10 these days.  Seriously?


Tell me how to get 1 GB Ram for $10 for e.g. my 7 years old PIII laptop which still is fine and running?
Don't tell me about cheap prices, Lucky me has enough funds to purchase all this stuff. But I don't like to. It is just a resource wasting. It's exactly that attitude which is driving the global ecologic crisis.
Furthermore I'd like to point out that e.g. MorphOS runs quite well on my 400 MHz/128MB RAM Efika (and tell me how to get 1 GB for that for $10). It starts usb stack, network, 3d accelerated gfx, some file systems and a lot of other stuff. And since many of you don't consider an Amigaish system as a serious system, let me tell you that my QNX setup also requires very low resources.
The way to compensate for bad system design by increasing hardware power is not curing the prob, but dealing with its symptoms. And that is simply not sustainable nor a smart way.


But it IS the microsoft way..
 

Offline Oliver

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2009, 03:07:49 AM »
Quote
adolescent wrote:
The public beta keys are only good until August 1.  So, it isn't really a full free copy.  Registered beta sites probably get a full copy after the beta is done.  (Although, I haven't been beta since Windows 2000 so this may have changed).


Cheers mate.
Good good study, day day up!
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2009, 03:11:32 AM »
Quote

zylesea wrote:
Tell me how to get 1 GB Ram for $10 for e.g. my 7 years old PIII laptop which still is fine and running?


True, antique memory is more expensive, which is why I said "these days".  Chances are A) your system maxes at or below 1GB of memory, B) your system doesn't meet the other requirements, and C) you wouldn't be updating to a newer operating system anyway.  

Like I said... "Then you really shouldn't upgrade."

Quote
Don't tell me about cheap prices, Lucky me has enough funds to purchase all this stuff. But I don't like to. It is just a resource wasting. It's exactly that attitude which is driving the global ecologic crisis.


Huh?  Newer, more power efficient computers are causing global warming.  :lol:

Quote
Furthermore I'd like to point out that e.g. MorphOS runs quite well on my 400 MHz/128MB RAM Efika (and tell me how to get 1 GB for that for $10). It starts usb stack, network, 3d accelerated gfx, some file systems and a lot of other stuff. And since many of you don't consider an Amigaish system as a serious system, let me tell you that my QNX setup also requires very low resources.
The way to compensate for bad system design by increasing hardware power is not curing the prob, but dealing with its symptoms. And that is simply not sustainable nor a smart way.


Efika isn't a 10+ year old system, nor is it a candidate for Windows 7 installation, which was what the argument was about.  (Read the rest of the thread if you will...)

That said, I know that QNX, Xubuntu, etc. are really thin, and might run well on old hardware.  But, the user experience is usually not on par with what OS 10 or Windows delivers.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2009, 03:17:51 AM »
Quote

stefcep2 wrote:
Quote

zylesea wrote:
The way to compensate for bad system design by increasing hardware power is not curing the prob, but dealing with its symptoms. And that is simply not sustainable nor a smart way.


But it IS the microsoft way..


I don't think that's quite fair.  Are you saying that software makers should not use available CPU resources?  Even in the Amiga world people who want the newest OS are expected to upgrade.  (AmigaOS 4.1 on an A500/512k chip only machine?  No!?  Lazy programmers!  :crazy:)
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2009, 03:26:32 AM »
Back on topic.

Windows 7 is very nice.  I've got a couple of apps; A/V, Firefox, etc. and all my drivers installed and it feels just as fast as my XP install (and much faster than the Vista install I had last year).  

My system is nowhere near cutting edge (think "$100 PC" here).  IIRC, it scored a 4.4 on the Windows Experience Index when I had a 6600GT in it.  I think with the Intel GMA it would be about a 3.5.  :-D

Pentium 4 550 (3.4GHz)
Intel 915GM chipset
2GB DDR-400 RAM
500GB WD

If the speed and compatibility keep up, then I think Microsoft might win back some customers that left because of Vista's teething problems.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2009, 03:31:06 AM »
One more observation.  I have my case open right now (Shuttle XPC, SB83G5) and I notice Windows 7 pages less than even XP did.  I haven't even needed to put in my ReadyBoost USB key in yet.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Amithony

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2009, 08:19:15 AM »
I wonder how the viruses are going to enjoy windows 7? :P~
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2009, 11:39:32 AM »
Quote

Amithony wrote:
I wonder how the viruses are going to enjoy windows 7? :P~


There is a security update for the beta.  KB958644, which relates to MS08-067, Server service remote code execution.  This allows an authenticated user to break the Server service and execute code.  I have been hired to clean up several installations affected by this particular vulnerability.  (In all but one case, these are unpatched servers which get taken down by a workstation infected by a worm from a social networking site.  The primary vector is old Flash installations.)

Anyway, I have spent some time with Seven today in Virtual PC 2007 SP1 (SP1 is required if you want to use the Virtual PC Additions, otherwise you will crash 7.)  I originally installed using Microsoft's Pre-Public Beta Release... uh, excuse me, I mean the "leaked"  ;-) BitTorrent ISO.  This version is a multi-installer from which I selected Business.  

Pretty snappy, even in a VPC.  Although I have three gripes at this point: no "Classic" theme, cannot get that damnedable ClearType to actually turn off, and finding many settings still requires navigating menu trees.

I will not be able to use 7 if that ClearType "feature" cannot be turned off.  It gives me horrible headaches, and viewing it on an LCD monitor is like watching white vertical lines scroll on graphics displayed from the likes of the Apple ][ and the TI-99/4A (anyone who has ever played "Parsec" on the TI knows exactly what I mean.)

Using the official beta release, which is ultimate, performance dropped significantly, and I really do not know why.  I am about to dump the official release and go back to the unofficial if the performance does not level off.

As for problems with viruses, I am happy to report that AVG v8 runs just dandy in 7.  Before reloading the system, I purposefully injected a couple of viruses into the system, and visited some pages which attempt trojan installations (IE hijacks.)  I had to bypass IE8's warnings first, but AVG works.

Other than that, Vista's side bar is gone.  There is a new "Action" center which gives special alerts from a little golf flag in the clock.

The Quick Launch has been replaced with the "Pin to Task Bar" option, but the icons do not appear to be resizable -- a shame, since I generally like a couple of rows of icons.  An interesting change to the Task Bar is how programs are now grouped by the programs icon.  As well, if the program is pinned, then that pinned icon now becomes the program's anchor on the Task Bar.

A "Show Desktop" function has been placed to the right of the clock.  This replaces the old Quick Launch icon while still giving a GUI option for the Windows-D shortcut key.

I cannot think of much else right now.  If you have used Vista, you are pretty much ready to use 7.  It is still butt-ugly, still uses up stupid amounts of screen real estate, but is a little less sluggish.

For my performance comparisons, I have run Vista Business 32-bit and 7 Business 32-bit in VirtualPC.  7 feels much more responsive.  It also installed much more quickly -- I was able to get 7 installed in a little over two "Family Guy" episodes, versus a little longer than "Airplane" for Vista.  (Really, what makes the difference??)  I am suspect of these results, so I am going to try again.  Thankfully, the installation is largely hands-off.

I am still not feeling compelled to switch from XP.  Though, given the apparent performance difference, I may load it up on my primary machine once it hits RC1.  My workstation will continue to run XP x64 for as long as it is supported by proxy of 2003 x64.

I may play with it in VirtualBox just to see if there is any performance difference.  I expect there to be a little difference as you can adjust the amount of video RAM available in VirtualBox, versus the static 8MB in VirtualPC.

My machine: Core2Duo 1.8GHz, with 1GB of RAM assigned to the VPC.

[EDIT] I believe the sidebar is still available, just not turned on by default like in Vista.  ISTR seeing the icon for it, but since I do not use it, I did not go hunting for it.
 

Offline meega

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2009, 12:00:05 PM »
Quote

LoadWB wrote:

An interesting change to the Task Bar is how programs are now grouped by the programs icon.

In XP, right-click on taskbar, choose Properties, select the checkbox "Group similar taskbar buttons". Was that removed for Vista?

Quote
A "Show Desktop" function has been placed to the right of the clock.

In XP, right-click on taskbar, choose "Show the Desktop". Does Vista not do that?
:)
 

Offline Oliver

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2009, 12:29:08 PM »
Quote
meega wrote:
In XP, right-click on taskbar, choose "Show the Desktop". Does Vista not do that?


I think LoadWB was refering to the 'show desktop' icon in the quicklaunch toolbar of the taskbar.
Good good study, day day up!
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2009, 01:05:48 PM »
Quote

TjLaZer wrote:
It looks just like Vista!!!  :roflmao:


Which if I was Microsoft, I'd think twice about.  They really should be aiming to distance Windows 7 from Vista as much as possible.  A new theme, even if it is only superficially tweaked and the removing of that {bleep}ing awful green-blue aurora crap would do it.
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »
Vista went RTM in Nov 2006. If Windows 7 makes Nov 2009 it will have been 3 years. Its not even at RC yet.
I have had Vista 64bit installed since June 2008. It is slower than XP for sure, and I actually dual installed XP to run my Wintel based games. I have found it very reliable but for 1 driver issue it has never crashed.
The biggest issue 4 me with Vista is when it starts up once the os desktop appears you cant really do anything until it has settled. Which can take a good minute or so after the desktop has appeared.  On the same PC Win XP is up and ready in 30 secs. (Much more Amiga like OS boot times)
If Windows 7 has XP speed and Vista nuances its got my vote.  I remember seeing a quote somewhere at the end of last year that the only good thing about Vista is that it will have a reduced upgrade cost to windows 7.
Don't know if I agree but roll on the RCs and Retail.

 :-D
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2009, 02:08:53 PM »
Quote

uncharted wrote:
Quote

TjLaZer wrote:
It looks just like Vista!!!  :roflmao:


Which if I was Microsoft, I'd think twice about.  They really should be aiming to distance Windows 7 from Vista as much as possible.  A new theme, even if it is only superficially tweaked and the removing of that {bleep}ing awful green-blue aurora crap would do it.


Microsoft are in the unenviable position of having to get past Vista, without admitting Vista was a huge failure and mistake... I know only one person who regularly uses Vista... everyone else I know, who doesn't use a Mac, either has stayed with XP, or downgraded their machines (which came pre-installed with Vista) to XP...

XP works... it's a know quantity. Operating systems aren't sexy... they just need to work.

Offline persiaTopic starter

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2009, 02:20:02 PM »
That's called the Mojave Project.  

Quote

bloodline wrote:

Microsoft are in the unenviable position of having to get past Vista, without admitting Vista was a huge failure and mistake...



Windows 7 is Vista without the Vista name, a major bug fix and some of the bloat removed.  I suspect Windows 7 SP2 will be quite usable...




[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline spihunter

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Re: MS Windows 7
« Reply #59 from previous page: January 11, 2009, 02:55:31 PM »
Windows 7 Beta download seems to be borked at the moment. I tried on two different machines with no luck. I've got a spare P4 w/ 3GB of ram I'm going to try it out on.