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Offline kvasirTopic starter

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Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« on: January 08, 2009, 09:11:06 PM »
Hello all, I have a 1.2 gb work: partition on my A1200, using SFS filesystem, and there seems to be a bad block somewhere towards the start of the drive. I've been trying to use sfsdefrag, as the files are scattered in a way similar to buckshot from a shotgun round. When it get to one specific spot on the drive, the hard drive shuts down and makes a sickly grinding noice. After a second or 2, it will spin up again, and repeat until I reboot.

What I need to fix this is:

A block by block scan of the partition
A way to map these blocks out, I beleive this can be done with hdtoolbox, but I need a refresher on how to do this.

Both previous things that are compatable with SFS.

Failing that, I might be able to format the drive if sfsformat can "skip" blocks, but this would require transferring about 700MB over an ethernet cable, hardly the most exciting part of my week....

Any suggestions?
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Offline Piru

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 09:38:28 PM »
Backup the data NOW, the minimum everything you can't get back elsewhere. This is the first thing to do. The drive is dying fast, it's far better idea to get the important data off it rather than tempting fate.

Frankly mapping the bad blocks is a waste of time. The drive is likely to fail completely very soon, so better replace it with a new one. HDDs are dirt cheap these days, anyway.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 10:51:18 PM »
I second Piru.  My first rule of data recovery is "STOP SCREWING WITH THE DRIVE!"  Make no further attempts to repair the drive, make haste to replace it.
 

Offline jlariv8957

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 05:40:40 AM »
I'll submit another way:

If it is an IDE drive you should try to:

- Backup your datas
- Low level format your drive using a specific utility on a PC (maxtor powermax witch runs fine on any ide drive)
  - Do a complete format & a burn test: it will force the drive do rebuild is internal bad block list
If the drive have enough spare sectors free it will be defect free from the operating system as the bad block list is managed by the drive.

- Reformat your drive and restore your datas

tested many times ...

Another idea: try to use hdd regenerator (this utilities are on hiren's boot CD) it seems strange that this utility can "repair" an hard drive but i had some good results


Have fun .
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 05:46:14 AM »
I'm afraid if the drive is spinning down the damage is really serious. Too serious to get repaired by disk zerofill utility.
 

Offline jlariv8957

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 07:39:36 AM »
Sure, filling a drive with zeroes didn't ever repair any drive but the scan after the llf build the drive bad block list so, if the drive have enough spare blocks the bad blocks will be marked as bad in the drive bad block list (not in the filesystem) so the disk will be declared defect free.

I've salvaged many drives that mean.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 07:53:48 AM »
If you have important data, get it off that drive.  If you want to play with it, then feel free.

My advice, stemming from almost two decades of hard drive experience, is to scrap that drive.  Modern recording media on hard drives is, shall we say, brittle.  Once it starts to go bad, a complete failure is not far behind.

I have used HDD Regenerator to stabilize a drive with important data on it when a customer did not want to pay the $500 - $2500 a professional clean-room recovery outfit wanted to charge.  I did make a handsome profit due to the time involved tying up my machinery (it took several days to run, during which time, at any given second, the drive could have just gone tits-up,) then recovering the data and manually sorting it for the customer.

As Piru said, new drives are dirt cheap.  I would go so far as to say obscenely cheap.  The fact that the drive is spinning down shows that there is something more ominous going on with the drive.

Is it worth playing with?  Maybe academically.  But unlike SCSI hard drives of the past, once a hard drive develops bad spots and erratic behavior, it is time to relegate that drive to non-critical use.

My second rule of data recovery is to not play with live data.  Once you have a safe copy, then you can play all you want.

I have done this many times before, given back a customer his or her data, then asked permission to work with the drive on my own time, ensuring that it will be wiped as much as possible before disposal, or destroyed outright if requested.  (There is an outfit in Georgia that grinds and burns the things.  They even provide the shipping material, and chain-of-custody and destruction affidavits.)
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 07:55:38 AM »
Quote
Sure, filling a drive with zeroes didn't ever repair any drive but the scan after the llf build the drive bad block list so, if the drive have enough spare blocks the bad blocks will be marked as bad in the drive bad block list (not in the filesystem) so the disk will be declared defect free.

Actually the zerofill fixes the problems. Those applications just write all zero to the disk, and the disk firmware does the remapping automagically.

However, since the drive is spinning down the damage is way beyond what the remap can do. Likely there's some physical damage on the platter.

I've never been able to zerofill-repair a drive that spins down and makes nasty noises.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Offline kvasirTopic starter

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 04:26:35 PM »
@ all
Thanks for the help! Just an update, spent last night tying up 3 computers (My 1200 w/ ailing HD, My windowsXP laptop, and my Wife's computer). Dumped all my important files accross to my laptop over wireless (for some reason my wifes computer won't accept a SAMBA connection from my 1200), whilst checking my financial aid status and customizing my new cellphone on my wifes computer, then killing time on the rest of the backup with a game of Homeworld (before semester starts and homework requirements prevent such frivolties). Also looked into my IBM thinkpad PII, that I picked up for $10 at a rummage sale not too long ago, which sports a 5gb drive thats old enough to be recognized by my 1200. (I don't have a working 4x-eide card yet, the one I do have requires a tower case, which I'm saving pennies to buy, so I'm stuck with laptop sized IDE drives for now) I have a couple of probs with the backup, though. I have 1 MacOS partition that the Amiga can't access directly due to a lack of a Macintosh filesystem, and 2 windows partitions (3.11 and win95 for pc-task) that will copy fine, but eat the rdb block, requiring a re-install. not too big a deal for 3.11, but 95 will take all friggin day.... Also, my internal floppy isn't working all that well. I still need to sync the file attributes between the backup (on Windoze crap NTFS) and the Amiga, while I believe theres a proggy on Aminet for this sort of thing, I can't remember where... Plus I want to get my wifes computer with a 120GB drive accepting smbfs mounts, with her being hardwired into the router the backup would go much faster. The drives actually done this before a while ago, and it just takes a reset to get around, but now it only does it during a defrag, like sfs is already skipping that block. At first it was acting more like an overheating problem, and possibly the drive had a safety shut-off of some sort. Haven't been able to dig too much info on it other than here. ( 2.1 GB internal 2.5" IDE drive ) Anyway its alot of fun about to be had here. I can't do a UAE dump on it as it is a 2.5", and I don't have an ide adapter for the tower size ide port (pin amounts escape me this few cups of coffee in the morning, I know one of em is 44 pin :-D ) This also goes for reformatting the 5 gig drive... Ugh.. will have plenty to do this weekend. Thanks again all!
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Amiga 1200T 68060 50MHZ 192MB Fast
 40GB IDE, 100MB Zip, CD/RW, DVD/Rom
 Mediator+ 4MBSVGA, Soundblaster, 100mbps Ethernet
 Subway USB+ endless list of gadgets :-D
My full specs
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Bad block list and defragging drive problem.
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 12:52:54 AM »
What MacOS version?  Doesn't CrossMac support System 9 and earlier file systems (HFS, IIRC)?  What's the new OSX filesystem, other than ZFS?

(Oh, Amiga ZFS would be coooool.)