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Author Topic: MiniMig with AGA  (Read 315815 times)

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Offline Crumb

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2010, 02:21:18 PM »
@yaqube

you rock, man!

If it was possible to add a socket for a real 68060 I would probably buy one.
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: Club de Usuarios de Amiga de Zaragoza (CUAZ)
 

Offline Crom00

Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2010, 02:25:12 PM »
Quote from: yaqube;545367
TG68K @ 7.09 MHz : 4.27 x A500 / 1.85 x A1200
TG68K.C @ 7.09 MHz : 5.81 x A500 / 2.52 x A1200

Hardfile read speed: 1900-2000 KB/s


Rockin like Dokkin! Nice work! Can't wait to fire up this thig when it's available. I have to laugh at the clowns that have said it was impossible to reproduce Amiga 1200's again.
 

Offline billt

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2010, 02:32:42 PM »
Quote from: Dr_Righteous;545318
There is a solution for that... Use a big honkin' FPGA. Future proof now! LOL!


Yea. And I'd put a number of conncetors on there, even if current Minimig doesn't support them yet: IDE, maybe SCSI, ethernet, USB, etc. including analog chips related to them. Not sure what sound looks like in there as I don't have a Minimig board. Sure, that may mean a larger BGA FPGA package, I'd be fine with that. And do a 24bit/color video DAC, hoping for more than just ECS (which now came true with AGA added).

If I ever have time, I do want to play with porting Minimig AGA to a board I have. It even has a PCMCIA slot. I'll have to make a small PCB for an SD at some point, will try to use PCMCIA-CompactFlash initially. For a new small PCB, I'd also want to put on an HD-Audio codec and a couple other things, just in case. But I'll probably work in verilog, learning that is more relevant to my day job and much easier for me to deal with. I really hated VHDL in college, just a personal taste thing.
Bill T
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Offline yaqube

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #122 on: February 27, 2010, 02:38:14 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;545369
If it was possible to add a socket for a real 68060 I would probably buy one.


A daughterboard with 060 and some goodies like dedicated SDRAM, Fast Ethernet and USB ports is planned.
 

Offline FrenchShark

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #123 on: February 27, 2010, 03:40:00 PM »
Quote from: yaqube;545367
TG68K @ 7.09 MHz : 4.27 x A500 / 1.85 x A1200
TG68K.C @ 7.09 MHz : 5.81 x A500 / 2.52 x A1200

Why just 7MHz ? Is it because of the non cached SDRAM access ? (7MHz for the CPU, 7 MHz for the Chipset, 70ns access time).
Looking at the numbers, the new TG68K.C execute almost one instruction per clock : it is at the performance level of a '040 !
Tobias claims it can run at 40MHz on the fastest (and more expensive) cyclone II.

Quote from: yaqube;545367

Hardfile read speed: 1900-2000 KB/s


Is it with SPI or 4-bit SDIO ? Is DMA involved ?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 03:51:56 PM by FrenchShark »
 

Offline yaqube

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2010, 04:31:02 PM »
Quote from: FrenchShark;545388
Why just 7MHz ? Is it because of the non cached SDRAM access ? (7MHz for the CPU, 7 MHz for the Chipset, 70ns access time).


The memory bus of the Minimig runs at 7.09 MHz so it was the simplest solution. The CPU can access the bus every clock cycle if it's not used by the chipset DMA.

Quote

Looking at the numbers, the new TG68K.C execute almost one instruction per clock : it is at the performance level of a '040 !

The 16-bit opcodes are executed one per clock cycle. The performance could be even better if the data bus was 32-bit wide.

Quote
Tobias claims it can run at 40MHz on the fastest (and more expensive) cyclone II.

According to timing analysis results both these cores can run up to 20 MHz on Spartan-3E. I will try to run the CPU twice the speed of the memory clock. And with a prefetch buffer to improve memory throughput.

Quote
Is it with SPI or 4-bit SDIO ? Is DMA involved ?


24 MHz SPI, no DMA.
 

Offline Crumb

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #125 on: February 27, 2010, 04:40:17 PM »
@yaqube

Quote
A daughterboard with 060 and some goodies like dedicated SDRAM, Fast Ethernet and USB ports is planned.

that's really nice :-) BTW, do you think it would be possible to emulate the registers of some gfx chip like Virge/Trio64/CirrusGD54xx? If an amiga gfx card was emulated no drivers would be required so we would have P96/CGX support. That would require that 020 emulation was already present.

Have you think about bounties? I know you do this for fun but perhaps it would help to buy pizzas :-)
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: Club de Usuarios de Amiga de Zaragoza (CUAZ)
 

Offline kolla

Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #126 on: February 27, 2010, 04:45:55 PM »
Quote from: kolla;544413
Is it possible to use higher screensizes, like HighGfx' 1024x768 or similar?
It would be nice to see a (hopefully) quick demo of HAM8 workbench :)


Bump! :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
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Offline Louis Dias

Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #127 on: February 27, 2010, 06:15:30 PM »
Quote from: Piru;545355
Forgot about that. For some reason I built an analogy in my mind that this would be similar to running software emulation on top of a host system, but indeed that is not the case. Here we have to deal with the memory interface directly, which indeed is quite slow. Just shows how much of a software guy I really am. ;)


Nothing.

So I assume the 68000 softcore has some kind of built-in cache to compensate for the slow memory interface, too?


The memory interface on the NATAMI is much faster and uses DDR2(iirc).  It's also going to have 32k or 64k cache.
Also, I believe their bus will be 32bits.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 06:19:01 PM by lou_dias »
 

Offline mikej

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2010, 07:43:34 PM »
Quote from: lou_dias;545404
The memory interface on the NATAMI is much faster and uses DDR2(iirc).  It's also going to have 32k or 64k cache.
Also, I believe their bus will be 32bits.


Hi,

When I initially designed the board I did a lot of analysis of the memory timings. DDR2 is not better than DDR1 in this application. DDR2 is basically optimised for faster clock speeds, the memory access time is about the same. For the speeds we can obtain with the FPGA (133-166MHz) then DDR1 is the better choice.

The memory bandwidth is not the problem, for example the 16 bit memory at 133Mhz will deliver over 4GBytes per second in burst sequential access. We are using the DRAM at the moment to emulate large amounts of static RAM, and we can get cycle accurate timing for the original hardware.

The softcores are not at the level of compatibility that I would like at the moment. The reason I have a 68000, 68030 and 68060 on daughter boards is to develop and test new softcores. As has been mentioned before, using FPGA internal SRAM as a cache can significantly increase performance.

People always complain about the cost, so for where we are now the memory system is about optimal cost/performance level.


The expansion board idea is a way to increase the performance above the basic card. We can develop boards with either real processors, or faster FPGAs with dedicated memory.

The most important thing for me is to get a stable board which can be mass produced which meets 90% of our current desires and has potential for expansion for the people that want that.

I imagine a future version without the expansion connectors and with several banks of memory instead.

4 connections to make on the layout, still on track for manufacture on Monday.

/Mike
in a bar in China....
 

Offline xyzzy

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2010, 08:40:43 PM »
I like it! Keep up the good work / drinking :D
 

Offline mumule

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2010, 10:31:42 PM »
Quote from: mikej;545411
Hi,
The memory bandwidth is not the problem, for example the 16 bit memory at 133Mhz will deliver over 4GBytes per second in burst sequential access. /Mike
in a bar in China....


Are you sure, you didn't mean 4Gbit/s ?

133MHz times 2 (word) times 2 (double data rate) ~ 532 MBytes/s ...

OH, OK. You're sitting at the bar ;-)
 

Offline Crom00

Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #131 on: February 27, 2010, 11:58:09 PM »
With any luck the factory owner will provide you with flesh and blood Asian Amigas to keep you happy ;)
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #132 on: February 28, 2010, 12:33:49 AM »
Quote from: mikej;545411
Hi,

When I initially designed the board I did a lot of analysis of the memory timings. DDR2 is not better than DDR1 in this application. DDR2 is basically optimised for faster clock speeds, the memory access time is about the same. For the speeds we can obtain with the FPGA (133-166MHz) then DDR1 is the better choice.

The memory bandwidth is not the problem, for example the 16 bit memory at 133Mhz will deliver over 4GBytes per second in burst sequential access. We are using the DRAM at the moment to emulate large amounts of static RAM, and we can get cycle accurate timing for the original hardware.

The softcores are not at the level of compatibility that I would like at the moment. The reason I have a 68000, 68030 and 68060 on daughter boards is to develop and test new softcores. As has been mentioned before, using FPGA internal SRAM as a cache can significantly increase performance.

People always complain about the cost, so for where we are now the memory system is about optimal cost/performance level.


The expansion board idea is a way to increase the performance above the basic card. We can develop boards with either real processors, or faster FPGAs with dedicated memory.

The most important thing for me is to get a stable board which can be mass produced which meets 90% of our current desires and has potential for expansion for the people that want that.

I imagine a future version without the expansion connectors and with several banks of memory instead.

4 connections to make on the layout, still on track for manufacture on Monday.

/Mike
in a bar in China....


Hi Mikej,

Kudos to you.  The board you designed is to emulate older hardware and I understand why it was designed the way it was and how you can get some enhancements as it exists now.  What I said earlier about the NATAMI was not intended to take anything away from your design.

I was merely pointing out, as people seem to forget, that the target for the NATAMI is a new evolutionary 68K Amiga platform.  An up and down evolution over the A4000, not an emulation of it or older hardware.

What you have done is excellent.  It's basically a hardware MAME and it does that job perfectly.
 

Offline desiv

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #133 on: February 28, 2010, 12:58:11 AM »
Personally, I'm interested in both projects.

The Natami, a souped up A5k so to speak, sounds interesting and I can't wait to see you guys release..

However, the thought of a really fast AGA Amiga with boatloads of CHIP RAM is intriguing as well...

I think you both need to get to market, if only to see the look on Piru's face. :-)

desiv
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Offline whiteb

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Re: MiniMig with AGA
« Reply #134 from previous page: February 28, 2010, 02:31:24 AM »
Well its official, I am foaming at the mouth with the thought of this.

Its sad for my Amiga's, as the Accounts Manager (Wife) is going to demand some sell off's if I am going to get this.

@TasmanianGuy

I am just over the pond (Bass Straight) in Melbourne.
A4000D - CSMKII//128MB/IDE CF/Indivision Scandoubler
A1200
A1000

(And now a Minimig) :>)