Redrumloa and AmiBay - Update

[riccofl]

ok, just a fair question.

[clint]

@ redrumloa, save2600 and arkanoid.

Grow up, show you are mature enough to make up and be friends again.

red, stay with the Amiga community it needs people like you. Although I have never bought any parts from you I have seen only good reports from them that have.

clint

There's no attempt by me, or anyone else to manipulate the situation, and I really didn't want to rehash it.

Admitting fully that he was the first one to turn on the gas for the flame fest, Red -- like everyone else -- just has a breaking point as to how much crap we'll put up with for the sake of this community.

I wish I could claim to be innocent in all of this.  I really do.  As probably one of the few who can actually claim over 15 years experience with this community, time and time again, I see someone who's trying to do something positive for the community (even AI themselves several years ago) only to get shat upon by the fanboys and zealots alike.

I've done my fair share of damage to the community, no doubt.  Moreso than most I'm afraid, but it just hurts me to see someone who's trying to do ANYTHING positive only to be shot down without remorse.

Then, it's interesting to see those who did the shooting come out from behind their cover and wonder why their favorite targets are now "dead" to the community.

I for one, wish Red hadn't made the decision he did.  I wish he hadn't have lit the original fire either, but the proverbial cat is out of the bag and is now laying dead on the floor, as should this subject be.

Maybe he just needs time to get his life in order, maybe (hopefully) it's just a phase or something and he'll be back, but you've only got one more dealer to kill, then everyone's seemingly obvious goal of stomping out the embers of the smoldering fire that was once the Amiga will be accomplished.

... anyone wanna buy a slightly abused web site while you're at it?

Wayne

[Trev]

I think we like our Amiga.org a bit weathered. I also think Jim will be back. He's left before, after all. High prices or no, he's a reputable seller. Unfortunately for Jim, I'm a capitalist consumer, and AmigaKit often had better prices, exchange rate and shipping included. :-(

And because I feel like answering unasked questions, I also want to note that as an American, I take no offense at being called a communist. It isn't 1965, and people are free to call me whatever they want. (But why do so many so-called right-wingers behave like fascists? The spectrum needs a facelift.) I dont' want anyone to get the idea that all Americans are members of right-wing militias itching to shoot at anything red and moving (no pun intended). Most of us are pretty open minded and able to carry out an objective discussion without feeling disgruntled. (Note, that last statement doesn't include noteable talking heads: Nancy Grace, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, et al. They're all nutters--on their shows, at least, and that's how everyone perceives them.)

[arkanoid]

@Wayne: I'm scared to say much more, even in the form of an extended apology; in case I get yet more people taking the original argument out of context and wanting to ram a rod down my spine for not feeling sorry enough to commit suicide.

I think things are way beyond the original argument with Red now. It seems the only purpose of the continued banter is in trying to explain to others (who had nothing to do with the thread) why the argument started in the first place and the reason why people were agitated. But that seems like a hopeless task, so I for one will quit fanning the flames and just hope this mess fades away.

I really hope Red reads the apology I gave and somehow understands that, at least for my part, there was no real malicious intent involved and it certainly was not about him personally. Hopefully he will even appreciate to some degree why people were upset.

There's absolutely NO reason for him to leave the Amiga community, as far as I see he has no enemies - just people that disagree on certain things and you find that in all areas of life. And most of us don't just quit life.

ah, well, that's my very last word on this.

arkanoid wrote:
@Wayne: I'm scared to say much more, even in the form of an extended apology; in case I get yet more people taking the original argument out of context and wanting to ram a rod down my spine for not feeling sorry enough to commit suicide.

Seriously, there's no need to feel that you (or anyone else) has to say anything else.

I feel bad for rehashing the subject.  I know Jim stepped into it with his initial comment, but I hate seeing anyone, particularly one of the few reputable dealers left getting slammed.

What we need to remember here is that there's more to this site than just the Amiga.  Real life sometimes throws curveballs, and EVERYONE always lets those problems intertwine with what's said on this site.  

Case in point, Jim might have had a bad day that day, or he may have just said something off-the-cuff not expecting ANY of the harsh reaction he got.  We all have days like that.  The difference is, do we politely disagree with one another, or do we start with the insults?

Wayne

[ffastback]

I dont' want anyone to get the idea that all Americans are members of right-wing militias itching to shoot at anything red and moving (no pun intended). Most of us are pretty open minded and able to carry out an objective discussion without feeling disgruntled.

Why would anyone get that idea?  I'm a liberal on most issues.  Still "communist" is generally considered insulting when thrown at anyone who is not actively calling themselves that in the first place.  Communism is not the same as socialism.  Communist nations tend to go to extremes of poverty for some and usually are guilty of multiple human rights violations towards their own people.

I also want to note that as an American, I take no offense at being called a communist. It isn't 1965, and people are free to call me whatever they want.

Really?  Absolutely whatever they want?  Even if it isn't true?   God bless I guess.   :-)

Anyway, not looking to make this into any thread continuance thing as its going off-topic.  Just wanted to clear up my meaning if it was at all mis-understood.

[Plaz]

... anyone wanna buy a slightly abused web site while you're at it?

I've got 7 beans to trade.... maaagic beans. :lol:
 
In a more serious note.... there were some serious accusations leveled at Red. I'd be upset also if similar suggestions were made about me. Debate the appropriatness of his comment all year long and that's fine. But the other accuastions and account banning based on them, was wrong IMHO. Lessons learned I hope.

Also for any one who thinks I or any one else not allowed to make profit in a hobby market, I say bunk! It's done everyday in collectibles, classic cars, sports cards, movie memoriabilia, hamster farming ..... on and on and on... Picking on Red specifically for turning dollars (or Euros) in the Amiga community is off the mark. Unless it was proven that he's done something illegal, unethical,  or even down right dirty then it's time to get over the fact and move on.

With so much non-news, bad news, vapor news in Amiga land, it's not suprising these type threads snag so much attention, we're bored I guess.

Plaz

[Sig999]

What a shame, I've always seen Reds online prices as fairly reasonable.

One less place for me to look for stuff I guess.

[tone007]

This'll really drive prices up!

[Lorraine]

I've just read both these threads. I.. I don't know what to say.

I thought the war was mainly on the platform side, not paradigms like the ones we witnessed.

This is why I don't like using the Internet for discussions like this - terrible medium for getting your point across without sounding like a complete di*k at the same time.

[TheMagicM]

I'm 100% in agreement with Red.  Max money for Amiga stuff.  I wouldnt give it away.  

[TjLaZer]

I think the real issues here is there are a lot of people out there that are overly sensitive to the reselling of Amiga gear at high prices on eBay.  Some view any reseller as trying to price gouging and profit at all means.  Everyone wants that rare Picasso IV or that DKB 3128 for $40, and when they can't get it they get upset.  Yes Amiga prices can be very high and some items are out of reach for some.  But if you are a reseller and want to make it worth your time you will have to try to make some kind of profit.  Some whine and complain if people sell things for what they are worth.  I'm sorry but if anyone has problems with these resellers, just keep it to yourself.  If anyone had issues with Red you should see some of the resellers actions out there!  The Atari Jaguar community has this one guy who all he does is bid and buy rare gear and immediately throws it on his eBay store for 3 times the price!  This has driven up prices really bad and has caused a lot of problems.  That is not right and I can see where that would piss off everyone...  I am glad that we do not have anyone like this in our community.

I hope Red takes this all with a grain of salt and decides to stay with Amigas, if he doesn't it is his choice and will do what he will do...

[save2600]

There is not a single Amiga saviour. OR two. Or three. Since this hobby is not to be worshipped (as we've all been told before), lets not mince words.

Most people in possession of Amiga gear (ex dealers, ex hobbyists, ex video production users, ex Amiga zealots, etc)., are simply NOT going to be throwing their old hardware in the landfill. Amiga hardware WILL continue to find its way to Amiga enthusiasts from here 'til eternity. Ex-Amiga enthusiasts and users are fully aware of ePay, Craigslist, Amibay, Amigaworld, Amiga.org, etc. We REMEMBER what we paid for this stuff in the first place. Most of us bought it for more than we could have paid for a comparable PeeCee or Mac item - relatively speaking, FOR A REASON.

The absolute worse that can happen here is that prices for obsolete Amiga hardware comes back down to earth. GREED is what got Commodore where they are today.

I don't go to an estate sale, see a price for a Model A and tell them that their price is too low. Who in the Mac and PeeCee community are buying 15+ year old computer equipment at these prices?? (laughing out loud does not even begin to describe my feelings here)

WHO?

And why would they? And why would they not??

-snip- the ramblings of a tired and decrepit old Amiga user already. lol

[reflect]

Sorry, but you're not comparing apples to apples here.

Look at vintage cars. Would you laugh at someone who bought an ancient Ford from the 1920's, for instance? Even if the price was similar to that of a modern car?

The PC computers can not be compared to the Amigas and Ataris.. not even to the Sun Microsystem or Digital Equipment machines. They are rare, they are different, they still have this "fun" aura about them. So what if I can buy a dual 500MHz XEON system for X money..  if I can pay a little more and get a QUAD 100MHz SPARCstation 20.. with 2GB of ram and some SBUS cards..

We ARE from another planet..  this isn't just some piece of hardware, it's a piece of life.

[save2600]

X-acto is not just a name-O.

Just trying to prove a point. Which you once had (read back). Then lost apparently.

Hopefully, you have most of it back again...

And yes, SOMEONE *could* poke fun at another for paying an absurd price for something they never get to use in a practical sense. But what was your point? That was one of the points of contention with Red. C'mon... don't need to be arguing with the choir now, do we?