Mmmmmmm me want

[adolescent]

Trev wrote:

Microsoft, in its zeal to get Windows Mobile onto as many phones as possible, is left with a phone OS that no one wants to use, and more importantly, one that developers don’t want to code for. Developers, who have long been getting chump change for their apps, are starting to see that they can make quite a bit of money developing programs for rival platforms such as the iPhone. Compounding the problem is the sheer number of devices that run Windows Mobile. If I’m a coder who wants to develop for Windows Mobile, which phone specs will I be using when I sit down and try to hash out some code? Will the phone have an acceleromator? Will it have a touchscreen? How big will the screen even be?! The questions are endless, and the headaches for developers numerous.

Agreed.  As I've said about 5 times in this thread so far, developers really need to know their target (unless you're doing J2ME stuff but even then you still need to know what JSRs are supported).  

Anyway, iPod/iPhone developers aren't immune to this either (albiet to a lesser scale because of the devices infancy); GPS or no GPS?  FPU or no FPU?  CPU speed?  To make matters worse, AFAIK there is nothing in the SDK that allows you to determine device capabilities.  There's probably an undocumented API call somewhere, but we know how Apple likes developers using undocumented features.  :lol:

[Trev]

I'm on ATT and the data package I have includes unlimited SMS/MMS. I don't know if SMS should die, but SMS prices need to die as they're rediculous. Before I got my data plan ATT changed their rates to 15 cents to send and 15 cents to recieve! That's crazy.

It's 20 cents now, and the city of Sacramento (which I live near but not in) passed legislation to start taxing mobile phone services (in addition to taxes already imposed by state and federal laws).

[AmigaHeretic]

adolescent wrote:

Agreed.  As I've said about 5 times in this thread so far, developers really need to know their target (unless you're doing J2ME stuff but even then you still need to know what JSRs are supported).  

Anyway, iPod/iPhone developers aren't immune to this either (albiet to a lesser scale because of the devices infancy); GPS or no GPS?  FPU or no FPU?  CPU speed?  To make matters worse, AFAIK there is nothing in the SDK that allows you to determine device capabilities.  There's probably an undocumented API call somewhere, but we know how Apple likes developers using undocumented features.  :lol:

Yeah, but isn't that just like saying iPhone has certain specs to program to?  There is a larger range now with 2 generations and the iPod touches so you have multiple specs.

"PocketPC" -PPC is just a Spec.  WindowsMobile runs on PPC, so you have a spec to program to.

So developers do know there target.  Hence the 1000s of "PPC" apps that run on all the phones out there.  

Does the phone have GPS or other "special" feature?  I don't see how that is a big deal.  Depending on the App you are programing either the App doesn't work at all on that phone (like you bought a GPS specific program for a phone that has no GPS , why would you do that??)  or that feature is disable.

Example might be Google Maps for PPC.  If you have a GPS in the phone then you can have it show you on the map where you are.  If your phone doesn't have GPS then that feature isn't available.  

I don't see why that is a problem.


For wikipedia: Any device which is to be classified as a Pocket PC must:

-Run Microsoft's Windows Mobile, PocketPC edition

-Come bundled with a specific suite of applications in ROM

-Include a touchscreen

-Include a directional pad or touchpad

-Include a set of hardware application buttons

-Be based on an ARM version 4 compatible CPU, Intel XScale CPU, MIPS CPU or SH3 CPU. (As of the Pocket PC 2002 specification, ARM-based CPUs are required.)

[Trev]

Agreed. As I've said about 5 times in this thread so far, developers really need to know their target (unless you're doing J2ME stuff but even then you still need to know what JSRs are supported).

I wasn't trying to say that they needed to know their target platform (which in this case is Windows Mobile and not the hardware itself, although having to compile for multiple CPUs does complicate performance analysis)--that's a given. What I was I trying to imply is that programmers need to be smarter than that.

Extending the GPS reference a bit, you don't write GPS code, you write location awareness code and let the operating environment worry about how the location is determined (GPS, cell tower triangulation, WiFi hotspot database, user input, etc.). It's unfair to blame the platform for your own design mistakes.

Apple's tight coupling of hardware and operating environment allows developers to write, in theory, worry-free code, in the same vein as the game consoles of old. The advent of software updates for console games--Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii--has, in my opinion, allowed console developers (or rather, quality assurance analysts and program managers) to get lazy. Why fix today....

That said, I'd rather see an open platform. I love my Mac--it's pretty, it talks to my audio gear without headaches, etc.--but I do all my hacking on a generic Windows box (including cross-compiling for the Amiga).

[adolescent]

Trev wrote:
I wasn't trying to say that they needed to know their target platform (which in this case is Windows Mobile and not the hardware itself, although having to compile for multiple CPUs does complicate performance analysis)--that's a given. What I was I trying to imply is that programmers need to be smarter than that.

See AmigaHeretic's message above.  Windows Mobile only supports a single CPU (family).  

Extending the GPS reference a bit, you don't write GPS code, you write location awareness code and let the operating environment worry about how the location is determined (GPS, cell tower triangulation, WiFi hotspot database, user input, etc.). It's unfair to blame the platform for your own design mistakes.

Not blaming the platform, I was only using the example of how the devices do not have the same performance and/or functionality.  That is, the iPod Touch uses Core Location very differently than any of the iPhones due to it's lack of GPS and GSM.  

The main point is that these gaps are only going to get bigger as new iPhone/iPod models are released.  Perhaps a new iPhone will have a better bluetooth profile, increased resolution, etc.  The criticism that Windows Mobile was difficult to develop for simply because there are so many varying devices available is likely to affect the iPhone/iPod too.

[Painkiller]

The main point is that these gaps are only going to get bigger as new iPhone/iPod models are released. Perhaps a new iPhone will have a better bluetooth profile, increased resolution, etc. The criticism that Windows Mobile was difficult to develop for simply because there are so many varying devices available is likely to affect the iPhone/iPod too.

I doubt it will be that difficult. Apple can just slap different profiles to their dev tools which will allow easy development for all iPhone platforms. Clear advantage of not licensing your OS to third parties.

[AmigaHeretic]

Can the iPhone do this?

YouTube - 3D Alt Tab Screen Rotate - Windows Mobile

[Trev]

@AmigaHeretic

Yes, but that's just battery wasting eye candy.

[bloodline]

AmigaHeretic wrote:
Can the iPhone do this?

YouTube - 3D Alt Tab Screen Rotate - Windows Mobile

Well of course not, the iPhone only runs a single application at a time... Have you ever used one? :-?

[bloodline]

Trev wrote:
@AmigaHeretic

Yes, but that's just battery wasting eye candy.

Well if it's eye candy he wants the iPhone has far more impressive suff that 3D task switching :-D

If there is one thing he can't deny is that the iPhone has plenty of eye candy!

[Trev]

@adolescent

Microsoft must be gettimg stingy with their SKUs. Last I read, support included ARM, SH, MIPS, and x86.

[adolescent]

@Trev

You're probably mixing up Windows Embedded Compact (previously known as Windows CE) with Windows Mobile.  Windows Mobile is based on Windows CE, but is ARM (family) only.

[adolescent]

bloodline wrote:

Trev wrote:
@AmigaHeretic

Yes, but that's just battery wasting eye candy.

Well if it's eye candy he wants the iPhone has far more impressive suff that 3D task switching :-D

If there is one thing he can't deny is that the iPhone has plenty of eye candy!

So what is the answer?  Yes?  No?  Or, the iPhone has "more impressive" battery wasting eye candy?   :roll:

[jj]

You can only run one app at a time on the Iphone ?

Really, honestly.

So you cant for instance, be playing a game with the sound off, listening to your mp3s and switch to a browswer and then switch back to the game.

If not thats seriously rubbish and limiting.

[darksun9210]

that can't be right.
i can play MP3's at the same time and scurf the web on my 6120. i noticed it was a bit slow one day and was complaing about memory, then i found i'd left quake running in the background...

shurely shome mishtake?

[Trev]

@adolescent

Which is why I said Microsoft must be getting stingy with their SKUs. The compiler itself still supports the various architectures. Microsoft must have decided not to sell Windows Mobile 6.x for anything than ARM (and probably x86 for testing).

As far as eye candy, of course the iPhone can flip, rotate, and texture map screens. It also multitasks (it's running the same kernel as Mac OS X, after all). The difference is that task switching is controlled by the Home button and Home screen. The OP asked whether or not the iPhone could do it, not whether or not the operating environment mimicked that behavior out of the box.

The thing I don't like about the iPhone, iPod Touch, Windows CE/Embedded/Mobile, and so on is that when you close an application, it doesn't end the process. Instead, the process continues running in the background. You can kill processes on all the environments I've mentioned, but it's usually difficult and annoying to do so (holding the Home button on the iPhone, control panel on Windows). The same annoyance exists in Mac OS X (and NeXT, I suppose, which is where Mac OS X got it), but at least you have an option to end the process directly.

It's also prevalent in Windows apps that minimize to the system tray (which was never intended for that purpose) and UNIX apps that run as a combination daemon and user interface. In other words, it takes control of the process out of the hands of the user. Bad mojo. Time to revolt against the MCP, perhaps.

@JJ

I don't know if you can use iTunes (or another media player) as background music while you play a game. I'm not sure you would want to, though. Personally, I prefer to play games the way the designers intended them to be played--in the same I prefer matted widescreen to pan and scan. ;-) The iPhone, like most mobile devices, is not supposed to be all things to everybody, although it's more of a general purpose computer than most phones. The same can be said of Windows Mobile devices, I'm sure.

That sort of task switching is also a serious resource drain, unless the idle tasks are properly suspended. Most small devices are designed with a specific power budget/footprint in mind.

EDIT: Just thinking that I would like to create a custom radio station in Fallout 3 that streams from the XM 40's station. The GNR station in the game gets repetitive. I also had the BGM so low that I didn't realize the game even had BGM until after I'd finished it the first time through.