new AmigaOS feature requests

[DonnyEMU]

Things I want to see in a new AmigaOS..

1) a new unified driver model that supports 64bit and 128 bit OS..

2) Amiga Update online (like Windows Update) keep up to date with stuff..

3) Better 3D support (not just openGL) but a 3d UI and up-to-date 3d cards..

4) driver roll back model (one touch rollback) and system rollback.

5) Software add remove from prefs.. A unified place to uninstall software

what new would you like to see?

[Jope]

5) is something I agree  with..

The installer system ought to be reworked:

- a unified place for all install logs (and each install must create a proper install log)
- in addition to the files being copied and additions to the user startup, the install log should have mentions about where in envarc the config files are going to be, etc..
- an if exists s:postremove statement in the startup-sequence, that will execute the s:postremove script to clean up things the uninstaller couldn't remove

Perhaps some day, perhaps never.. Perhaps in AmigaOS, perhaps in MorphOS, perhaps in AROS..  :-)

[alx]

@DonnyEMU

I agree with them all apart from a 3D UI - this is what I said in a recent AW thread:

Re: Future directions for AOS GUI   

IMO 3D GUIs are a waste of time until VR headsets and gloves come as standard - there's no point in having more dimensions than you can view at once, as it just makes it more fiddly to use - its probably that M$ feel they have to cram in more bloat :roll:

Even when that hardware becomes availible, remember that the eye is still primarily a 2D device - stereoscopic vision is a start, but true 3D would be very different (you'd be able to see all sides of an object at once). Until computers connect directly to the brain, thats not going to be possible. So why don't designers look at other senses - for instance integrating sound into the "GUI" better?

Of course, other parts of the GUI would be far easier to touch up like icons.  They should at least be truecolour with an alpha channel, but I'd like to see vector based icons as they could scale so well.

[mikeymike]

@ DonnyEMU
You don't want much, do you?

1) a new unified driver model that supports 64bit and 128 bit OS..

You mean to cater for that processor that we've got no hardware support for, and that non-existent processor?

4) driver roll back model (one touch rollback) and system rollback.

You've been using Windows waaaaay too long.

what new would you like to see?

"Windows clone mode" apparently would be a desired feature... ick.

[Linchpin]

No, i agree. Driver rollback and system restore is about the only good thing of windows XP. (SysRes on winME and 98 is useless). I think it would be a good idea anyhow.

Kev

[chris]

I would like somebody to come up with an example of when they have needed to "roll back" a device driver on AmigaOS... I know I've never needed to do this (and it is under most circumstances just a case of copying one file anyway, so not exactly rocket science)

Chris

[DonnyEMU]

As President Reagan used to say.. "There you go again"..

I used to work for an Amiga dealer and I can think of hundreds of examples where some special library wasn't installed or some device wasn't functional because they installed a bad driver (Supra Hard Drives and C'Ltd.) were the worst for this. Even with Autoconfig some memory expansions and accelerators required more than addmem and the 68040 library to get working again..  

That was when you coud walk in to a store buy new hardware not thru mail order or on e-bay and have a dealer to support you.

There is a whole site full of just Amiga install disk sets out there with the latest drivers etc. there.

 I know several folks out there who couldn't get their Amiga USB or ethernet card working because they had out of date libraries (ARP, ARQ, or how about missing MCC files)..

You don't have to be brain dead to realize that the need for an enhanced installer that keeps a record of all files that have been changed and could roll you back to the previous configuration (returning your OS startup sequence to the way it was Not just an Uninstall, but an archive) might be a good thing..  Especially supporting high resolution graphics cards.  Here's a did you know, I was at Microsoft Meltdown 2003 and listening to the QA staff of LucasArts giving a presentation. One of the facts they quoted is they have to support over 41 major graphics cards that are PCI right now with different capabilities per each card. If the AmigaOne is PCI you guys will be in that same mess ;-)

My tech support hell I remember when I was the manager of an Amiga dealer was talking someone over the phone how to use ED and the CLI..

If you think Amiga's just have "one file" that needs to be changed or replaced back, then there is some history that you need to be filled in on.. I am sure that this kinda thing doesn't change in the future. Plus how many people have "aminet" replacements for commands etc. in their system that have minor incompatibilities etc.  

If the Amiga is to come back and have "new" users that are not intimate with the system OS at the command line level, which we are all hoping for, then there needs to be some sort of enhancement like I talked about, or some "safe mode" that users can fall back to if their drivers fail to work etc.

I am all for an "Amiga Update" online as better versions of what you have on your machine is available they are smart enough to get placed in your machine automatically. For my work machine I'd never go back to not having "automatic updates"
of my virus checker brain files, my OS libs etc..

There needs to be one place that will install these automatically. And that's not rocket science.. In fact I think Innovatronics long ago announced something like "amiga washer" or something like that..

Having online updating is not there because you have crappy coders or a flawed OS.. it's there so that you can keep up-to-date without thinking about it.

How silly thinking a release code product is bug free or will never need changes.. I would like to see the number of bugs hyperion has on the "bug testing database" that they actually release OS 4 with. I would bet you that it's higher than anyone will actually admit to. There are always a certain number of bugs in any software project that are unavoidable and low priority fixes.

 I also have been using an Amiga since V27.3 Kickstart, and I well remember the OS swallowing memory and not giving it back, and "Amiga_Fireworks_Mode", which was pretty spectacular. You can't program without oddities and quirks appearing.. If you tell me that, you aren't a good developer. You can keep them down however.

If Hyperion were smart they'd set up "Amiga Update" on a website (with an automatic script) and charge yearly membership to updates and open it to the entire development community who might wanna offer updates and patches online..

What an idea, and it makes money after the fact.. Hmm... Could I be on to something?

[iamaboringperson]

Please be to ask you:
Which thread to please to post to??
I'm confused??
http://amiga.org/forums/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10788&forum=9
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3918
or?

[mikeymike]

@ DonnyEMU

I've never suggested AmigaOS is bug-free or at the peak of the OS development pinnacle, ever.  However that does not mean everything should be done on it just like how it's done on Windows.

I don't use Windows Update.  The detection system for patches is extremely poor, if you read the NTBugTraq list, there are emails on it all the time how patches re-appear on the list of patches to install even though they've been installed before, the patch installation management system in Windows is absolutely horrendous.  Also, I don't want to have to leave my machine dialled up for hours on end to download half a million patches, every time I reinstall my machine.

[DonnyEMU]

If you think about the diversity of hardware that windows update runs on and the mix and match of the hardware etc, it's actually great. I will also defend this in saying that most folks in the USA are on cable/DSL which makes windows update mostly instantaneous.

Windows update is there to me for the most serious architecture problems. The service pack release downloads are available and HOTFIXES work great..

You really need to be on a non-dial up system like most US computer users to see the speed and beauty of windows update or even symantec's live update.  Sorry you are stuck with Dial-in.. I guess we are pretty lucky here.. If it makes you feel any better I doubt an "Amiga Update" would have as many problems due to code size differences etc, or take as long to download.

With windows having to support everything in the world and a bazillion pc makers, it's much more difficult to claim all bugs are fixed or that manufacturers coming out with other stuff wont introduce more with new products. If you think about how many hardware folks are in the ball game it's a wonder that anything runs at all..

But I have had flawless updating with windows updates.

[mikeymike]

If you think about the diversity of hardware that windows update runs on and the mix and match of the hardware etc, it's actually great.

This has nothing to do with the issue you perceive.  Windows Update "does what it says on the tin" BADLY.  For an OS like Windows, patches are critical, the delivery system needs to be perfect.

But I have had flawless updating with windows updates.

I'll tell you what, subscribe to the NTBugTraq mailing list, and read.

[chris]

If you think Amiga's just have "one file" that needs to be changed or replaced back, then there is some history that you need to be filled in on..

Okay, calm down.  Perhaps my message could have been clearer that it was in my experience.  The problems come when you try to add hardware which weren't envisaged by the OS designers.  These ultimately have more than a couple of files and are rather hacky.  Everything else, you should find only comprises of a couple of files.  If hacks and patches are preventing the drivers from working, that's not really the OS's fault, is it?  And this is easily solved by not running the hack or patch that is interfering.

That's my last comment on the matter, as I can tell I'm going to get flamed for suggesting people stop running their oh-so-essential really-nasty-and-unstable hacks and patches.  I run some too, but they are the first thing to go when other stuff stops working.

Chris

[tumash]

To you DonnyEMU and to all interested.

We are working on an unified installer application for the AmigaOS'es.
In several aspects it goes far beyond the things you've written down, but can't speak of details yet.

If we won't be able to develop the project I predict releasing all documentation and provide with every support from my company to the developers that will want to develop it.

[Floid]

DonnyEMU wrote:
You really need to be on a non-dial up system like most US computer users to see the speed and beauty of windows update or even symantec's live update.  Sorry you are stuck with Dial-in.. I guess we are pretty lucky here.. If it makes you feel any better I doubt an "Amiga Update" would have as many problems due to code size differences etc, or take as long to download.

Not to disagree, but Windows Update is actually one of the driving forces behind the 'broadband' uptake.  When you can't keep using your machine (for all the worms and virii in the world), you pay what it takes to keep your stuff usable - and then, as Blaster victims found - fall victim anyway, because you still forgot to install the latest patch.

Systems that can require trucking giant wads of source around (*BSD source trees and ports, Gentoo Linux's Portage, etc.) are another, even more effective motivator.

I doubt we'll have this problem with any Amiga solution, though, since the binaries should stay pretty lithe, and we can hope for fewer complexity-introduced bugs vs. 'the competition.'

BTW, if anyone knows of an even vaguely legal service offering streaming US-network television (I'd kill for PBS, even), PM me or something.  If only the providers actually offered multicast...

[Valan]

As a simple user I would like changs that effect the way I work.

1. A Load/Save requester that can expand into a full browser so I can move, delete, Search, copy files, etc.

2. Ability to set a window to 'Copy To'(green border?) and another to 'Copy From' (Red border?)so it is more difficult to confuse which is which.

3. Have the scroll bars to be on the edge closest to the centre of the screen.

4. A view that opens the drawer into a propper speadsheet type layout with full viewing and editing abilities.

Thanks
Valan