Wanted: 68040!

[Kin-Hell]

Cyberstorm MKIII uses 80Mhz for 40Mhz 040. Isn't it something to do with a divide-by-two counter on the chip?

I ain't sure & really hope I aint digging a hole here!?  :-?

*edit*

brb.....

Crap! I owe an apology! Please excuse my tardiness!  :oops:

You're quite right, it is 40Mhz. I've had my hands on CSPPC', MKIII' &  Warp Engine borads in the last 60 hours!
Aside from the grief at seeing all this stuff go, I guess i'm getting my "p's" & "Q's" arse about farce!

Humble Apologies!....... 8-)

*edit again*

CSMKIII is 80Mhz for a 40Mhz 040. Definately!  ;-)

[vk3heg]

countzero wrote:
I have warp engine crystals gathering dust here (had to buy bulk when I upgraded mine.) I can send you 5 crystals just for postage (I'm in japan though)

I only need one !-)
 :-D

[vk3heg]

joekster wrote:
I have both. Not sure about the warp engine, but for the 040 - you usually need an 80mhz crystal for 40mhz operation. for $65+ ship its yours...

The warpengine uses two crystal's.. One for the cpu and the other for other functions.

[vk3heg]

darksun9210 wrote:
i just clocked up my warp engine to 40Mhz just swapping the crystal without changing the cpu. yeah yeah i know, naughty me.

Could that be why I read in another thread that yours has died?

[darksun9210]

no i don't think so. i sold mine (as a 28Mhz clocked to 40Mhz) with AMD K6-2 heatsink and fan. about 8-9 years ago :-)

[alexh]

Kin-Hell wrote:
@ alexh
Did you ever find a 40Mhz 040? I should have a redundant one soon if the price is right!  ;-)

I only wanted a L88M variant. I have other hotter ones.

delshay wrote:
there also the MC68040V which is 3.3v i dont know how hot it run.

AFAIK the 68040V cannot be used with Amiga's because the chips it talks to reply at 5v.

Kin-Hell wrote:
Cyberstorm MKIII uses 80Mhz for 40Mhz 040. Isn't it something to do with a divide-by-two counter on the chip?

You're not dreaming I've read something like that too, but it must be a feature of either Phase5 boards, or WarpEngine boards because they are uniquely different WRT to this.

[darksun9210]

same as the cyberstormII/040, iirc had an 80Mhz crystal on there.
just like the BlizzardPPC040 has a 50Mhz clock crystal for a 25Mhz 040.
something to do with the crystal feeding a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit inside the CPU to generate the CPU/Bus timing.
i also recall, but may be incorrect, that the internal frequency of an 040 is double the external bus speed. kinda like a 486DX2. which would also explain why Mac Quadra's of the 040 era were marketed as 25/50, 33/66, and eventually 40/80 cpu speed denominators?

my memory is hazy as it was a good few years since i had my warpengine and was playing about with variable frequency oscilators. so ignore me if i'm talking out my rectum :lol:

[doctorq]

CSMKIII is 80Mhz for a 40Mhz 040. Definately!  ;-)

No doubt about it, and so does the MKII, but this was about the WarpEngine :-)

[Kin-Hell]

doctorq wrote:

CSMKIII is 80Mhz for a 40Mhz 040. Definately!  ;-)

No doubt about it, and so does the MKII, but this was about the WarpEngine :-)

I know doctorq & I apologise for my tardiness with confusion on my part. Quite lame really. Sorry!  8-)

@ alexh

alexh wrote:

Kin-Hell wrote:
@ alexh
Did you ever find a 40Mhz 040? I should have a redundant one soon if the price is right!  ;-)

I only wanted a L88M variant. I have other hotter ones.

delshay wrote:
there also the MC68040V which is 3.3v i dont know how hot it run.

AFAIK the 68040V cannot be used with Amiga's because the chips it talks to reply at 5v.

Kin-Hell wrote:
Cyberstorm MKIII uses 80Mhz for 40Mhz 040. Isn't it something to do with a divide-by-two counter on the chip?

You're not dreaming I've read something like that too, but it must be a feature of either Phase5 boards, or WarpEngine boards because they are uniquely different WRT to this.

Yeah m8, the Phase5 board has a Cap in the CPU socket that you set to either 3.3v or 5v.
I'm guessing one of these 68040V Chips would work fine with the Phase5 board set for the 3.3v required for an 060?
I'd be guessing the Phase5 boards allow the 040 to use it's on-board divide by two counter. Me wonders what a board like this would make of the version V 040 & could you see 50Mhz?
Warp Engine boards usiing 60ns RAM run rings around 060's on the Desktop - even if the 060 uses 60ns RAM. The Warp engine is blazingly fast.  ;-)

[alexh]

AFAIK 060 is 3.3v core but 5v I/O. Making it perfect for Amiga but crap for FPGA.

The 68SEC000 (used on minimig) is 3.3v everything making it perfect for FPGA.

I *think* would depend on whether the 040V is half and half (like the 060) or full 3.3 (like the SEC) as to whether it would be compatible.

But I am not 100% sure about this (otherwise why is there no 060 MiniMig by Illuwater?)

A WarpEngine 040@40 is faster than an 060@50? I think not. (was that a joke? If so I didnt get it)

[Damion]

i also recall, but may be incorrect, that the internal frequency of an 040 is double the external bus speed.

This is exactly correct. The marketed rating of an '040 refers to its bus speed, internal is double its external frequency. (The easily accessible jumper settings for the clk ratio is what makes something like an Apollo 1260 card super easy to overclock with a Rev 6 '060 - old FPM SIMMs generally won't operate at 80MHz, but 40 is no problem.)

From this page:

The main internal units work at twice the clock speed of the bus interface unit. For instance, when processing most instructions internally, a 68040 clocked at 33 MHz effectively runs at 66 MHz.

[delshay]

MC68040V should work on most 040 board you just have to add a regulator ( if needed ).

but you can get 3.3v from a modern power supply,some of you already have this.

[Kin-Hell]

alexh wrote:
AFAIK 060 is 3.3v core but 5v I/O.

...but a CSPPC/CSMKIII card has two Capacitor settings within the socket. In one position, it supply's 5v & the other 3.3v
If the 060 requires 3.3 for operation, where would it draw its 5v power from when the card is set to supply 3.3v?

alexh wrote:
A WarpEngine 040@40 is faster than an 060@50? I think not. (was that a joke? If so I didnt get it)

Not in terms of MIPS or FLOPS. Just in terms of around the Desktop.
The Warp Engine needs to have 60ns RAM to run at it's fastest capability.
An 060 using 60ns ram on say a CSPPC or CSMKIII card with SCSI III drive is not as snappy on the desktop as a Warp Engine using 60ns Ram on a SCSI II drive.

Go figure?  :-?

[RMK305]

My Warpengine @40MHz has a 40MHz crystal.

Interestingly, it does not have a heatsink fitted, only a small fan with some of that ceramic paste holding it on. I got it this way and have never had any problems with crashing even in the cramped A4000D case. Should I put a small heat sink between the fan and the chip?

[alexh]

Kin-Hell wrote:
...but a CSPPC/CSMKIII card has two Capacitor settings within the socket.

They are not capacitor settings are they? I do not know what they are for sure. They perhaps somehow alter the output of the voltage regulator? I honestly do not know 100% how power electronics work (in general) let alone how the CSMKIII works.

Kin-Hell wrote:
In one position, it supply's 5v & the other 3.3v If the 060 requires 3.3 for operation, where would it draw its 5v power from when the card is set to supply 3.3v?

If it limits all the voltage inputs to all 68060 power pins then I would have to agree. But if it only affects one or two? I would have to read about 68060 more. But perhaps you are right? Which would be interesting.

However the signals coming FROM the Amiga will be 5v. So the 68060 inputs must be designed to accept 5v or they would break. (Or there must be additional electronics on all 060 boards)

Kin-Hell wrote:

alexh wrote:
A WarpEngine 040@40 is faster than an 060@50? I think not. (was that a joke? If so I didnt get it)

Not in terms of MIPS or FLOPS. Just in terms of around the Desktop.

It doesn't run faster but it does run faster? The mind boggles :-)

Kin-Hell wrote:
An 060 using 60ns ram on say a CSPPC or CSMKIII card with SCSI III drive is not as snappy on the desktop as a Warp Engine using 60ns Ram on a SCSI II drive.

How very strange. I suggest that some of the OS/desktop software you are using might use a feature of the 040 that is perhaps emulated in the 060? That would explain it. Or perhaps a bug in said software?

Interesting non the less.

[zipper]

alexh wrote:

Kin-Hell wrote:
...but a CSPPC/CSMKIII card has two Capacitor settings within the socket.

They are not capacitor settings are they? I do not know what they are for sure. They perhaps somehow alter the output of the voltage regulator? I honestly do not know 100% how power electronics work (in general) let alone how the CSMKIII works.

A plain jumper, under the 68k chip http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/overclock/csppc.html

Kin-Hell wrote:
An 060 using 60ns ram on say a CSPPC or CSMKIII card with SCSI III drive is not as snappy on the desktop as a Warp Engine using 60ns Ram on a SCSI II drive.

How very strange. I suggest that some of the OS/desktop software you are using might use a feature of the 040 that is perhaps emulated in the 060? That would explain it. Or perhaps a bug in said software?

Interesting non the less.[/quote]
What about the Chip RAM speed of said cards?