CD32 internal hard drive controller idea...

[Astral]

Ok, I have an idea to get a hard drive internally for the CD32. I am not interested in whether it is cost effective, practical, marketable, not worth the time, easier to get an SX1/SX32 or whatever. I would like figure out if it is electrically possible.

What I was thinking is a combination of the Amiga 1200 Fast ATA controller, Kickstart socket modifications and Gayle chip if necessary.

Basically, if the CD32 Kickstart socket was modified to use the blank spot next to the standard socket so that the chip is spread across two chips, instead of one, so that they are electrically compatible with the Amiga 1200 sockets. Then, and I think this'll be the deciding factor...attach a Gayle chip to the CD32 circuitry. Is it necessary to actuallu have a Gayle chip to use the FAST ATA controller? Is it possible to splice a Gayle chip into the existing CD32 electronics? Does the SX1 use a Gayle chip for it's IDE controller, but connected to the main expansion connector instead? Does the CD32 Kickstart have the necessary software for the IDE controller? Then, make a hard drive bracket, attach a hard drive...and...voila...CD32 with a hard drive.

Ok...reality check time. Is it possible?

[voyager]

I think making a memory expansion, is more use full. The whdload game can then be preloaded and you don’t have the annoying system holds if it reads data from the cdrom drive.

[alexh]

Of course it is possible. Someone made the SX-1 & SX32 didn't they? The question is stupid! [Edit: In that it doesn't make sense.]

All the signals you need are on the 182-pin MCA connector. No need to screw around with the main board at all. Forget all this kickstart socket stuff.

It is NOT practical to use an AGA Gayle chip, you'd never find a source of them. You will have to design your own (maybe copy the AGA Gayles registers) and implement it in an CPLD/FPGA.

The SX-1 and SX-32 do NOT use a real AGA Gayle as their IDE controller. They have their own design implemented in one or two CPLDs.

Yes you 100% need a real AGA Gayle chip to use a FAST ATA controller. If you knew how it worked you might be able to incorporate the enhancements into your own design. You would almost certainly have to swap out the CD32 KS-ROM though so I do not think it is a good idea.

Does the CD32 kickstart have AGA Gayle IDE drivers within it? Good question, one I do not know the answer to. I am slowly shifting towards a yes. If not any board with a hard drive would have to have a ROM to be able to autoboot and I do not see one on the SX-1 or SX32. It is possible there is a ROM on the SX-1 is under the chip marked "MM-001-U20" but I dunno for sure, possibly a PAL/GAL chip instead. Cannot see a ROM at all on SX-32 MK1 PCB. This hints towards the SX-1 and SX-32 using the drivers in the CD32's kickstart ROM. Toni Wilen of WinUAE might know. Or perhaps Doobrie?

I've already done a RAM expansion. It's is very easy, you can read about the logic required to convert between 68k bus cycles and DRAM cycles in any good 68k hardware book and IMHO a RAM expansion is the only upgrade worth doing for CD32. It has a CD drive after all!

The main stumbling block is the 182-pin MCA edge connectors you can get them at Digikey $4.30 each but you need to buy 1000 of them :-(

I found them at Adam Tech, same MOQ of 1000 but a slightly cheaper price.

Ian Steadman found a cheaper source but when I tried to order from them I got a "sorry we do not actually have any" reply.

Realistically you're gonna struggle to make what you want. It would probably be easier to try and buy a CD32fWSI and create a HD addon for that to replace the RTC module.

It takes care of the initial problem (edge connectors) and they seem to be in a reasonable supply for £45.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180294789914

[CD32Freak]

@alexh

The 650092-1 connector isn't RoHS Compliant :-(, but  5650092-1 is the RoHS replacement :-D However, Digi-Key doesn't sell them :crazy:

[voyager]

Can’t we use a CPU clip on memory expansion? Or is there no room between the CPU and the case?

[AndrewBell]

alexh wrote:
Of course it is possible. Someone made the SX-1 & SX32 didn't they? Stupid question!

No such thing as a stupid question. To quote a line from Data in ST:TNG: "The smartest thing we can say is "I do not know!""

Not everyone is an electronics geek who specialises in old computers and hangs around fan boards to lord it over others. I've spent time in the army, there's plenty I know about fieldcraft, weapons, tactics, camoflage, etc. that you never will. Does that mean you are stupid?
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[voyager]

And there is always this one.

"there are no stupid question only stupid answers"

[alexh]

AndrewBell wrote:
No such thing as a stupid question.

Surely a question to which you (logically) already know the answer is not a question? And so its stupid? Don't you think? [Edit: Invalid perhaps rather than stupid]

AndrewBell wrote:
Not everyone is an electronics geek who specialises in old computers and hangs around fan boards to lord it over others.

They don't need to. They just have to have a modicum of common sense and the ability to structure a logical premiss.

The question was structured as "Is it possible to build something that has already built by someone else before?" the answer to which is always going to be... YES!

voyager wrote:
Can’t we use a CPU clip on memory expansion? Or is there no room between the CPU and the case?

I suspect that a CPU clip would cost just as much as the 182-pin connector, have the same MOQ problems and be less reliable.

[AndrewBell]

-Edit by moderator: Reason - Personal attack-
1st warning

# Blatant personal attacks are not permitted. Criticize ideas, not people. Excessive flaming will not be tolerated. Users who verbally assault the character or person of other posters on a regular basis will be banned. Name calling is best left to grade school. Moderator's judgment applies here. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack; "You are an idiot" is. "You do not have all of the facts" is not a personal attack; "you are obviously clueless" is. These are generalized examples, but you get the idea.

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[alexh]

Sounds like someone should get banned. Any moderators around?

[weirdami]

The question was structured as "Is it possible to build something that has already built by someone else before?" the answer to which is always going to be... YES!

Unless the something has not yet ever been built by someone else.  :-P

[AndrewBell]

alexh wrote:
Nice logical argument. Well thought out.

Sounds like someone should get banned. Any moderators around?

Definitely, and you were the first one to start throwing insults around.
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MFLB

[alexh]

weirdami wrote:
Unless the something has not yet ever been built by someone else.  :-P

Erm, then it would not have been "already built by someone else before" huh? ;-)

[alexh]

AndrewBell wrote:
you were the first one to start throwing insults around.

Eh, I said something was a stupid question. That is not an insult!? It's a statement! If I had said "You're stupid" that would have been an insult. [edit: But I didn't and wouldn't!] English not your first language?

This is a forum. A place where like minded people exchange ideas and opinions. These ideas and opinions are often not the same. That's the whole point of a forum. You take what people are saying, stick to your guns or perhaps form a different opinion or idea. It would be a boring world if we all agreed with each other all the time don't you think?

[AndrewBell]

-Edit by moderator: Reason - Personal attack-
1st warning

# Blatant personal attacks are not permitted. Criticize ideas, not people. Excessive flaming will not be tolerated. Users who verbally assault the character or person of other posters on a regular basis will be banned. Name calling is best left to grade school. Moderator's judgment applies here. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack; "You are an idiot" is. "You do not have all of the facts" is not a personal attack; "you are obviously clueless" is. These are generalized examples, but you get the idea.

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