Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)  (Read 39672 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amigadave

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2004
  • Posts: 3836
    • Show only replies by amigadave
    • http://www.EfficientByDesign.org
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #179 from previous page: September 24, 2008, 11:06:49 AM »
Quote

DavidF215 wrote:
amigadave wrote:
>If we gained just 10 new developers for the AmigaOS community, it would be a good success.

So grab a C/C++ book and start coding. Then there's only 9 more needed.  :-)  Even small programs and games would be beneficial.


I would, but I have already spent my little bit of money on the EFIKA and I am supporting the MorphOS group by registering MOS2.1 and will be learning to code for that platform.  If anything I do code can be easily ported also to AmigaOS4.x by using a cross compiler on my MacBook, or my Dell XPS tower running Linux or Windows XP, I will gladly support the AmigaOS4.x users by porting my work.

In other words, a few weeks ago I decided to put my money and time where my mouth was and picked MorphOS as my future Amiga-Like OS of choice to buy and code for.  I did not want to be a hypocrite anymore, by telling everyone to support our developers and not doing it myself.  At the time I felt that Hyperion and AmigaOS4.x would still be tied up in court for who knows how long and I liked the progress that MorphOS has made and the affordability that the EFIKA has given us, so I took the plunge.

I might be persuaded to support AmigaOS4.x in the future as well as MorphOS2.1 and beyond, but for now, the SAM is too expensive for me and as I am just learning more about programming, I will stick with just MorphOS.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline amigadave

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2004
  • Posts: 3836
    • Show only replies by amigadave
    • http://www.EfficientByDesign.org
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #180 on: September 24, 2008, 11:13:32 AM »
Quote

persia wrote:
What is the global Amiga market place?  It's tiny, Hyperion would sell more if Moana would be finished, but how many more?  And the cost would be Acube.  Who'd by Sam when they can get more than twice the power at less than half the cost by getting a used G4 mini?

I would love to not have to buy a Sam board and just go with a cheaper Mac, but nobody is building PPC equipment anymore, so in a way the Sam board is supporting the continued building of Amiga compatible PPC computers.  We are at the end of the line, if ACube goes there will be no-one to take it's place.  Is that worth having a few dozen more users?



I don't think the Hyperion developers of AmigaOS4.1 have anything to do with ACube, nor any obligation to NOT port the AmigaOS4.x to any other computer.  It obviously would be terrible for ACube's sales of SAM boards if Moana was finished, but it would be great for us and for Hyperion.

Hyperion and the developers need as many sales as they can get and the Amiga community needs any new users we can get, no matter how small the gain.  AmigaOS4.x on PPC Macs would not guarantee that we would get any new users or developers, but it is one of our best chances for that to happen.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline Gebrochen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 120
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Gebrochen
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #181 on: September 24, 2008, 11:22:42 AM »
@ NovaCoder:

Yeah, Imagine what would happen to them if they did place the Amiga logo on all their systems they sold they may as well go to court with Hyperion. hehehe, all that, just because A.Inc are idtiodically not allowing someone to place an amiga symbol, that A.inc dont even use themselves.

@ persia:
I didt know this was turning into a MAC forum.  :lol:

@ Coldfish:
Wel in that case, don't bother coming to the forums of Amiga, if your not nterested in wishful or hopeful thinking, yet alone supporting.  :devildance:

cheers.
 8-)
Courtesy of SAM440 Flex & Amiga OS4.1FE

A1000 Amiga with classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.2
MorphOS Powerbook G4

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com.au

 :evil: :popcorn:
 

Offline Hammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1996
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Hammer
Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #182 on: September 24, 2008, 01:08:48 PM »
Quote

AeroMan wrote:
Quote

Hammer wrote:
Quote

AeroMan wrote:

I would take my time porting to PS3 and/or XBox. It would be easier to do, and more powerful than x86.

As for "more powerful than x86", PS3 is a road kill against AMD based PC (i.e. AMD GAME!(1) reference platform i.e. AMD Radeon HD (stream processor array) + AMD Phenom (command prcoessor).

Refer to http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38145/135/
Real time raytracing the Transformers movie teaser trailers.

Let's see STI CELL matches AMD Radeon HD 2900/3800/4600/4800 raytracing.

Game for PS3 vs AMD PC debate?

Sony PS3 Fold@Home  = 900 PPD
NV Geforce 8600M GT Fold@Home GPU2 = 1135 PPD (AMD Radeon HD 3650 scores similar points).

1. "AMD GAME!" refers to AMD's "Centrino" for desktop PC market.


Just take into account that the PS3 is the best cost benefit solution available. Can you buy a bunch of GPUs  and make them work for the same price?

There's no need for "bunch of GPUs" to beat PS3.
One Radeon HD 3850 ($96.88 USD, 320 stream co-processors) or Radeon HD 4670 ($108.24, with 320 stream co-processors) would do the trick.

AMD Radeon HD != NV Geforce 8x/9x/Gt2x0 when it comes to raytracing.

An AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+($84.98 with motherboard) is sufficient enough for command processor role. Refer to http://www.pricewatch.com/motherboard_combos/athlon_x2_4200_cpu_fan.htm

Aim for $499 USD PS3 with 80GB HD.

AMD Radeon HD 4670: $108.24
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ and PC Chips A13G / A15G motherboard $84.98
Sub-Total: $193.22

Allocate $305 USD for 80 GB HD, 2GB RAM, Case, PSU, Blu-Ray-ROM.

$ 67.62  DDR2-1066 PC2-8500 2GB  
$ 29.00  Black Mid Tower Case, P4 550W P.S
$34.00 Western Digital 250GB 7200RPM
$111.98 Lite-On blu-ray
Sub-Total: $241.6
Total: $434.82

Prices from http://www.pricewatch.com/

Unlike PS3 (e.g. UT3**), this AMD based system is capable to play games sustained @ beyond 720p.

**Both Geforce 8600GT, Radeon HD 2600XT can play UT3 at 720p and greater than PS3's 30 FPS.

Quote

Besides this, the PS3 still has a Blu-Ray.

One could build an AMD based system with Blu-Ray to beat PS3.

This is without subsidy from game sales.
Quote

and really cool games.

I can“t think about a better port. Price is nice, performance is nice, it has nice games, can run Linux (if you wish) and it is already PPC. You might not like the PPC, but OS4 is already written for it, so it means porting is easier than to x86.

My reponse was for "more powerful than x86" comment.
Amiga 1200 PiStorm32-Emu68-RPI 4B 4GB.
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB, RTX 4080 16 GB PC.
 

Offline Karlos

  • Sockologist
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 16878
  • Country: gb
  • Thanked: 5 times
    • Show only replies by Karlos
Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #183 on: September 24, 2008, 01:30:13 PM »
@Hammer

My recently acquired nVidia GTX-260 (overclocked to 640MHz core speed) turns in many a merry FLOP in the CUDA application's I've played with this far :-)



(above represents source code level FLOPs, not actual GPU FLOPS)

What's more, the given API is quite nicely general purpose.
int p; // A
 

Offline Hammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1996
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Hammer
Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #184 on: September 24, 2008, 01:30:38 PM »
Quote

AMD is having difficulty keeping up with the Joneses.

AMD is doing just fine in the market that requires CPU+GPU combo.

Quote

Intel and nVidia are definitely the price/performance leaders.

In GPU market, NV and AMD are about even in the price/performance.
Amiga 1200 PiStorm32-Emu68-RPI 4B 4GB.
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB, RTX 4080 16 GB PC.
 

Offline arnljot

Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #185 on: September 24, 2008, 01:54:59 PM »
Consoles have never been designed to beat PCs in performance.

Consoles are designed to create a Vendor-Lock-In and to create a fixed predictable platform to create software for so that development can be rapid and cheap.

It's at the cost of the consumers choice in software titles (PC vs [Nintendo|Sony|Sega|MS XBOX]) and performance/$. Also price per software title.

But we seem to accept the higher $$ for both hardware and software because like Apple products, it just simply works. This is due to the lack of variation in the hardware base.

So it's obvious that any console, now and in the future will loose any $$$ and performance comparison VS any open computing platform like the x86 platform. Except perhaps at the very day of launch. But it fast falls behind as the lauch cycle for AMD, NVidia and Intel is almost down to 6 months now.

What it will win in is hassle free end user experience, and when it's mature (like PS2 and older generation consoles) in developer friendliness(resources, time spent, hw-mutations).

So the question is, will an operation system benefit from a locked in platform.

Yes, Apple and Amiga are examples of that. The small variations in the hardware platform gave these platforms the stability they are so well known for, this compared to the the bluescreens and crashes on Windows.

Also, will developers appreciate a locked in platform?

Most likely yes. Less varations to account for = simpler code and faster development shorter testing. Also, like consoles games can "bang the hardware", because it's always there.

Is this lock-in and it's benefits worth the higher cost that the monopoly situation that arises?

Most likely not. I won't discuss why Commodore failed. But one can certainly say that the industry have benefitted from an open common platform that is the x86 platform. On the other hand, moderating this is Apple with it's iPods and OSX intel computers. So perhaps there is business to be made still.

Also, is the PS3 the correct platform to lock AmigaOS4.x to?

Most likely not. Yes, it is the highest performance PPC solution still for sale and under production. Yes, there are Mac solutions still available second hand. But they are not under warranty anymore, and will run out before the PS3. And Hyperion is not a likely partner for Sony, and also sony is already developing the PS4, what happens if the next console doesn't use a PPC compatible CPU? Then Hyperion is left without a hardware vendor.

The PS3 is too locked in too, but are the locked options good ones for the Amigans?  It has a case that doesn't please everyone, some love it, some hate it. It can't be changed, that's for sure. It's noisier than it has to be, and it has a fixed amount of RAM. Two other seriously negative points for most users. Also, atm there is no accellerated graphics, only framebuffer for any "game os".

So if PS3 isn't the locked in hardwareplatform for the Amigians, then what is?

Natami? Efika? SAM440?

Well, what do you want? A powerfull strong niche computer, or a cheaper all-rounder? Both?

It's certainly going to be a niche computer at any rate for the forseable future unless Hyperion pulls one more rabbit out of the hat like it did with the SAM440ep :)

So how about the three contenders?

The Natami developer boards should have been out now. I haven't looked up a recent status, but I expect them to be late. It's an ambitious project, and as a voulentary project it would have been nothing short of stunning if they delivered on time, seeing as the proffessional industry at large (70%) always is very late. So the Natami is very "amiga like", "super custom". But it's not here now.

Then the Efika. I'll be short on this one. This is a OS4.x thread. Efika isn't OS4.x, it's MOS. However, the Efika is cheap, but it's not super cheap compared to cpu/$$ vs the last candidate.

The SAM440ep is. Thus it's the strongest contender to be the Amiga vendor locked in platform.

So why aren't we hearing a roaring unison happy rejoycing cry from the community?

It's expensive it's said. Well, objectively yes. But I'm sure that if we're talking net profit for ACube it's not expensive. All the arguments have been made, low volumes, high development costs etc.

I'm sure that Acube and Hyperion aren't out to fleece us. And I'm equally sure that they are now planning new hardware, and that the SAM440ep and flex must be considered "stop gaps" until a new propper platform can be established.

But if the PS3 and MacMini is as far as they look, I'll be very worried. Because they are not hardware platforms with more than at tops 5 years life ahead of them. I think it's very unlikely that Acube and Hyperion wants to push Macs and PS3s at us. Even more than us, I'm sure they want to know that there is also business to be done tomorrow, not only today.

The Hyperion-Acube partnershipgives good reason to believe that it's ACube who'll be designing and building any new amiga OS4.x hardware. And I think it's a good thing, sure it's not Acer, DELL etc. But they are dedicated, and they seem to be capable to deliver on promises. So for it to be a perfect union, it only remains to see if they are listening to the community and making a more powerfull solution.

So if we see OS4 on the Mac it's a sad day no matter how much we would like it. It would be a sad day, because then they have spent their time porting the operating system to a dying system rather than improving on the OS for the hardware, software and users that it has - and might have.

---

Now there are two last issues I haven't addressed. The lawsuit and OS4.x on x86.

The lawsuit is a entity no one here is competent or capable to forsee, so any effort spent on that is either just for fun in a "what if way", or just plain and simple in vain. Atm I'm focusing on other issues, so I deem it to be in vain.

The x86 issue... Apple did it, Aros did it... Well, I really don't care is my answer.

For me, Amiga isn't PPC or x86. It's this: Does it work, and can it run ?

Now the last one is a trap, and probably why Hyperion have their hands full working on the OS :)
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
http://www.arnljot.com
 

Offline Hammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1996
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Hammer
Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #186 on: September 24, 2008, 02:21:33 PM »
@arnljot

ACube needs to build a motherboard with a PCI-E slot. PCI-E(even with 1X) enables the system to gain the latest GpGPU.
Amiga 1200 PiStorm32-Emu68-RPI 4B 4GB.
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB, RTX 4080 16 GB PC.
 

Offline Hammer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1996
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by Hammer
Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #187 on: September 24, 2008, 02:26:01 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
@Hammer

My recently acquired nVidia GTX-260 (overclocked to 640MHz core speed) turns in many a merry FLOP in the CUDA application's I've played with this far :-)



(above represents source code level FLOPs, not actual GPU FLOPS)

What's more, the given API is quite nicely general purpose.

Note that NV is not cooperating with niche OS vendors.
Amiga 1200 PiStorm32-Emu68-RPI 4B 4GB.
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB, RTX 4080 16 GB PC.
 

Offline coldfish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 731
    • Show only replies by coldfish
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #188 on: September 24, 2008, 02:35:25 PM »
@Gebrochen:
Relax, tiger.
 

Offline Hans_

Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #189 on: September 24, 2008, 02:38:34 PM »
@amigadave
Information about cross-compilers can be found here. There's also a guide somewhere about writing code that will run on all Amiga OS variants. I can't remember where I got that one from though.

Quote

amigadave wrote:

I don't think the Hyperion developers of AmigaOS4.1 have anything to do with ACube, nor any obligation to NOT port the AmigaOS4.x to any other computer.  It obviously would be terrible for ACube's sales of SAM boards if Moana was finished, but it would be great for us and for Hyperion.


So many people seem to forget that it's ACube, not Hyperion, that were working on the Moana port. Rogue said elsewhere (someone else linked to it) that there never has been, and probably never will be, an official Mac Port. So, the best chance for OS 4.x on a Mac will be if ACube decide to continue the port, and convince Hyperion to let them sell it.

Hans
Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work
 

Offline arnljot

Re: Good News Is Here (OS 4.1&SAM440 amigakit.com)
« Reply #190 on: September 24, 2008, 03:06:27 PM »
@Hammer
I agree.

The locked platform that Acube and Hyperion should establish soon should be a motherboard with a limited selection of the CPUS from Freescale from Acube with PCIe. And the only supported GPU should be one from either Nvidia or ATI.

Users should otherwise be free to pick any SATA device and RAM.

Kinda like Apple does it. Eventhough they mostly also supply the GPU.
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
http://www.arnljot.com
 

Offline taunusand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 512
  • Country: dk
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by taunusand
    • www.amiga.dk
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #191 on: September 24, 2008, 05:46:43 PM »
Quote

NovaCoder wrote:
Very good news.

What would be even better, if it was sold as a complete computer (case/keyboard/mouse & optional monitor).  And it would be even better if they were allowed to brand it an Amiga.  

Amigakit sells it as a complete system, you just have to tell what you want :-)
Vesalia has options for system configuration, case, dvd-rw, harddisk, just look at their page :-)

I want one!! Just trying to find some money.. But I'll get it!
A1200, Blizzard 030, 2+32MB ram, 4GB CF, pcmcia netcard, Kickstart 3,1
A600, 2MB chip ram+4Mb pcmcia S-RAM, Kickstart 3,1
CD32 - Just for fun  :-D
 

Offline Andeda

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2006
  • Posts: 594
    • Show only replies by Andeda
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #192 on: September 24, 2008, 06:26:07 PM »
Quote

Gebrochen wrote:
@ Andeda,
so you bought a sam package also, cool.
 


Not yet, i just made a preorder on the OS4.1 for Sam, i have to order the sam later :-(
Amiga: A computer for the creative mind.

Sam440ep 667Mhz + OS4.1
Minimig (Home made)
A1200/030
A2000/030
A500 * 3
CD32
 

Offline Nlandas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 678
    • Show only replies by Nlandas
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #193 on: September 24, 2008, 06:45:40 PM »
Quote

NovaCoder wrote:
What would be even better, if it was sold as a complete computer (case/keyboard/mouse & optional monitor).  


I hear you. Vesalia has the following kit and I'm sure AmigaKit will have more of a system as well once it gets rolling.  :-D

Motherboard: SAM440ep Mini ITX Motherboard w/ 440ep/667 MHz, 512 MB RAM,
OS: AmigaOS 4.1 CD-ROM,
Case: Jou Jye 0528i case (black, incl. 220V power supply)
744.89 EURO

As for keyboards, mice, etc. I personally already have a lot of spare components and don't likely need more than the kit above.
 
EDIT: The missus(Love of my life) just said go ahead and get one if I want it.  :-D I so love that lady.
I think, Therefore - Amiga....
 

Offline persia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2006
  • Posts: 3753
    • Show only replies by persia
Re: Good News Is Here
« Reply #194 on: September 24, 2008, 06:52:51 PM »
Oh wow, an Amiga that looks like a dull, I mean Dell...



Quote

Nlandas wrote:
Quote

NovaCoder wrote:
What would be even better, if it was sold as a complete computer (case/keyboard/mouse & optional monitor).  


I hear you. Vesalia has the following kit and I'm sure AmigaKit will have more of a system as well once it gets rolling.  :-D

Motherboard: SAM440ep Mini ITX Motherboard w/ 440ep/667 MHz, 512 MB RAM,
OS: AmigaOS 4.1 CD-ROM,
Case: Jou Jye 0528i case (black, incl. 220V power supply)
744.89 EURO

As for keyboards, mice, etc. I personally already have a lot of spare components and don't likely need more than the kit above.
 
EDIT: The missus(Love of my life) just said go ahead and get one if I want it.  :-D I so love that lady.


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.