What are the advantages of the present/future Amiga?

[persia]

Exactly right, only a couple people here would even *like* a new Amiga, because it would be so different from what they use.  Forget it, the Amiga is part of the retro world, that's where it'll stay, maybe some will make retro-clones, but it will never again be modern, never again be state of the art.  The Amiga is 1989!

[quarkx]

Piru wrote:
@amigaksi

a new "Mac" is NOT a Mac because of Intel chips

Why not?

I have both PPC and Intel Macs. There is no difference between them, except that the Intel Mac is much faster.

I think the point is the "Spirit or Soul" of a MAC is that of a different architecture. The modern Intel MAC is exactly the same as running AUE or Amiga forever on a modern Intel box, although the MAC is not Emulated anymore but the OS is designed to run on an x86, the spirit of a MAC will always run on a Moto or PPC. Infact the "OS 9" and legacy mode for OS 10 (as I understand it) is an Emulation of the PPC.
It is the same debate on why cant we have Amgia OS 5 run solely on an x86 platform, because (in my mind) that would go against everything unique about the Amiga.
Too me it would be like all cars running the same frame and chassis. motor etc. The only difference would be the outer body and interior of the car. This is used by each of the car manufactures, but what happens if they ALL used the same one, whether it was Ford, GM or what ever? That is what is happening in the computer industry today, there is no Soul left, no real pride left in owning a brand name, they are just recycling the same stuff over and over and putting a different paint job on it.
Of course the MAC fanboys will argue this point saying that Apple is truly different, but at the end of the day, no matter what box it is in, it is still the same internals as the next company.

[DavidF215]

>1) What would be special about it?

It should be so simple to use that a computer-challenged individual could use it, yet powerful enough for advanced endeavors. A compact design that doesn't clutter; something like the MacMini or iMac, or the A500|A600|A1200 line.

>What would make people want to buy it instead of a PC?

In America, competitive in price, which is now about $395 for a base system. It would have to be focused on the consumer market. A Productivity Application Suite would need to be able to read and write in MS-Office datatype formats.

>2) How can the Amiga recreate the charm it once had as an inexpensive multimedia computer?

Cost $395 and be able to do word processing, spreadsheets, email communications, save and organize pictures easily, databases, acccounting, JavaScript, Java, Acrobat Reader, Flash, Shockwave, and some good quality games which Amiga has a good collection though some are outdated.

>3) What are the hardware solutions for the Amiga considering it typically uses hardware that can be outdated, limited in quantity, generally incompatible with market leader?

Something that's cheap, readily available, will be around for a long time, and designed with efficiency as top priority. In reality, Amiga needs a technology Partner, and it would be an x86 manufacture. Even Sun Microsystems ported their SolarisOS to x86, so that should be motivation enough business-wise.

In brief, use low cost hardware (x86, get over it cause there's nothing cheaper), port AmigaOS4 to it, create and include in the base system aLife and aWork (similar to iLife and iWork) application suites, and include Firefox as a modern web browser.

Then market the computer to China, because they have plenty of people to buy and to help develop for it.     Actually, working with a company from Japan may not be a bad idea because they have gadgets and technologies that are more advanced, technical, and "gadgety" than America.

[JLPedro]

Forget about the Amiga being mainstream again, i only hope to get my hands on an NatAmi60 :bow:(new hardware, fast, and compatible to all glorious software collection the Amiga has), because the bigger problem the Amiga community was is dying hardware, and thats the first priority, keep the Amiga we all know alive. :crazy:.
For the rest any PC (black, withe, yellow or watt ever... doesn't matter) will do.  

[tone007]

...

[downix]

DavidF215 wrote:
Then market the computer to China, because they have plenty of people to buy and to help develop for it.    

Which leads into my comment above, if you want to go to China, you'd better be running a MIPS CPU rather than an x86.  They are doing a huge push for "home grown" solutions, and the key to breaking into China right now is to make a solution compatible with their home made CPU, the Loongson, which is a MIPS compatible CPU.

You try and emulate Apple without understanding why, you will wind up like Be.  You want to compete, change the rules.  Make a $100 portable (more than doable... so long as you don't go x86) and people will take notice.

[Piru]

@quarkx

I think the point is the "Spirit or Soul" of a MAC is that of a different architecture. The modern Intel MAC is exactly the same as running AUE or Amiga forever on a modern Intel box, although the MAC is not Emulated anymore but the OS is designed to run on an x86, the spirit of a MAC will always run on a Moto or PPC. Infact the "OS 9" and legacy mode for OS 10 (as I understand it) is an Emulation of the PPC.
It is the same debate on why cant we have Amgia OS 5 run solely on an x86 platform, because (in my mind) that would go against everything unique about the Amiga.
Too me it would be like all cars running the same frame and chassis. motor etc. The only difference would be the outer body and interior of the car. This is used by each of the car manufactures, but what happens if they ALL used the same one, whether it was Ford, GM or what ever? That is what is happening in the computer industry today, there is no Soul left, no real pride left in owning a brand name, they are just recycling the same stuff over and over and putting a different paint job on it.
Of course the MAC fanboys will argue this point saying that Apple is truly different, but at the end of the day, no matter what box it is in, it is still the same internals as the next company.

The thing is that with computers software is everything. Who cares about the actual HW underneath as long as it's fast enough and bugfree?

BTW, car analogies suck.

[AmiKit]

That is what is happening in the computer industry today, there is no Soul left, no real pride left in owning a brand name, they are just recycling the same stuff over and over and putting a different paint job on it.

The marketing makes the spirit or "soul", not the material it is made from.

[A6000]

@DavidF215
Good post, wrong website - this one's filled with amiga haters.

[quarkx]

Piru wrote:

The thing is that with computers software is everything. Who cares about the actual HW underneath as long as it's fast enough and bugfree?

BTW, car analogies suck.

I Beg to differ, the hardware is what makes it unique, otherwise all we have is the same bs over and over. Send in the clones...and innovation and evolution is non-existent. that is the reason, the hardware is so important in this hobby, otherwise, we would all toss our amigas and just run winAUE or some other emulation and the re-sale market on e-bay and such would be nothing. But hey if you want to ditch all your Amiga hardware and run emulators then there are A LOT of people waiting to grab your old hardware.

Car analogies may suck, but they are the most effective in proving a point. I would much rather drive and own a 1970 Hemi Cuda ragtop, then a Ford focus anyday, even if the focus could emulate the feel of the cuda, it still not the same. in many ways the car hobby is the same as the vintage computer hobby.

[warpdesign]

Because Amiga IS better than a Mac, and a new "Mac" is NOT a Mac because of Intel chips. If hardware can be completely different and name remain the same, then the Commodore PC (especially an upgraded one) can be relabeled as an Amiga as well, right? They are just using the name to draw loyal fans and for marketing purposes. I would state that if the hardware is backward compatible, then you can use the same name.

That's stupid. Seems like you are against evolution to me...
And you cannot accept your old Amiga solution sucks and isn't the way to go anymore. This was good 20 years ago though... As good as the Ford produced 20 years ago was probably good. But the Ford produced today isn't backward compatible with the old one... And Amiga of today... Wait! there's no Amiga of today. The Amiga hasn't evolved since 20 years. But maybe it's still better than anything... Or maybe it's not...

Well, if Motorola kept advancing their processors and keeping them backward compatible, you could have had a more powerful Amiga more easily today.

Maybe they didn't because it was hard and useless ? maybe the 68k wasn't perfect and there was a better way to design processors ?

[alexh]

I have to disagree with quarkx (not for the first time).

The ethos of AmigaOS was to make the user experience easier and better to the point where it almost doesn't feel like you are using a computer.

It doesn't matter what hardware it uses. To be honest if you're even THINKING what the underlying hardware is then the OS + applications have not done their job correctly.

The most functional, easiest to use User experience is what it aims for. Stuff "just works".

Taking a crappy stoic stance of "it's not pure" is so lame and not what computing is all about.

You use words "Spirit" and "Soul" and I say that your ideas are the work of Beelzebub. You've missed the whole point of OS level computing!

You could argue that the spirit and soul of the Amiga was not in the OS level but in the bang the metal programming that grew up around the earlier computer systems. But I doubt very much you are a programmer or know anything about this area. You are just a user. (As am I)

[amigaksi]

>by Piru on 2008/8/30 22:29:15

>@amigaksi
>Quote:

>    a new "Mac" is NOT a Mac because of Intel chips


>Why not?

>I have both PPC and Intel Macs. There is no difference between them, except that the Intel Mac is much faster.

And how did you draw such a conclusion that they are both Macs.  The Mac was originally a 680x0 and although overburdened (unlike amiga) had some support hardware like for audio/keyboard/mouse etc. so unless you have a system that is a subset of that hardware configuration you can bet there exists a program that will work on original Mac not on your so-called Mac.

[alexh]

you can bet there exists a program that will work on original Mac not on your so-called Mac.

I bet there are very few programs worth running that fall into this category.

If you find one of these programs and find you cannot live without it, there are numerous easy to use hardware level emulators at your disposal.

[amigaksi]

>by warpdesign on 2008/8/31 13:02:15

>Quote:

>    Because Amiga IS better than a Mac, and a new "Mac" is NOT a Mac because of Intel chips. If hardware can be completely different and name remain the same, then the Commodore PC (especially an upgraded one) can be relabeled as an Amiga as well, right? They are just using the name to draw loyal fans and for marketing purposes. I would state that if the hardware is backward compatible, then you can use the same name.


>That's stupid. Seems like you are against evolution to me...

Saying it's "stupid" is not an argument but your biased opinion.  If you had read the entire post before replying-- I did mention something about evolution of processors where Motorola one's did not go as far as Intel ones.

>And you cannot accept your old Amiga solution sucks and isn't the way to go anymore. This was good 20 years ago though... As good as the Ford produced 20 years ago was probably good. But the Ford produced today isn't backward compatible with the old one... And Amiga of today... Wait! there's no Amiga of today. The Amiga hasn't evolved since 20 years. But maybe it's still better than anything... Or maybe it's not...

I don't even think you understood what I wrote.  PCs are backward compatible for about 30 years; I can still run 8088 code on a Pentium IV.  Get your analogies correct.  I already know there are still unique uses for an Amiga even today, but that's not the argument-- the point was there's no meaning to the name if you can assign it to hardware that's completely different.  

You cannot accept that you are a hypocrite claiming Amiga sucks on an Amiga forum.  If you really know it sucks, then state the proof.  Any small baby child can be taught to say "this sucks", "this is stupid", etc. etc.  

>>    Well, if Motorola kept advancing their processors and keeping them backward compatible, you could have had a more powerful Amiga more easily today.

>Maybe they didn't because it was hard and useless ? maybe the 68k wasn't perfect and there was a better way to design processors ?

You can always design hardware for backward compatibility; just look at Intel.  They would have had better optimization if they dropped all the 8-bit instructions in their 8088 instruction set but they did not.

[amigaksi]

by alexh on 2008/8/31 13:49:03

>>    you can bet there exists a program that will work on original Mac not on your so-called Mac.


>I bet there are very few programs worth running that fall into this category.

It does not matter the number; in fact, there can even be none-- just theoretically exist (someone may write one) and that would show it's not backward compatible.

>If you find one of these programs and find you cannot live without it, there are numerous easy to use hardware level emulators at your disposal.

Well, unless the audio/kb/etc. of the new machine is a superset of the old machine, it would be hard to do any sort of emulation accurately.  Actually, you can state there is some Mac out there that does this since there are so many flavors  and new flavors coming, it's hard to keep up.