Leaving Amiga - Need PC emulation / music recording advice.

[poktis]

Don't hesitate to use old applications coming from the amiga on your pc, without emulation, for your pleasure. Among them, try the legendary Symphony tracker, available with a 3D background for Win32 and its amazing effects, in a single .exe that could be copied on a floppy disk. Mail me if you use it, just for fun Two users at least here lol/

In a pro way, try Reason (a lot of studios create songs only with this tool and master them with Protools). Don't forget :
- protools (avid) to edit/master and exchange audio projects and say that you're a pro (the point of protools LOL)
- cubase (steinberg) or nuendo (from the same editor) if you have to work seriously with video files. Nuendo uses the cubase audio engine and offers more slots to load virtual instruments. Midi implementation in steinberg products is very nice.
- if you want to keep the amiga spirit, you could buy Samplitude (Magix).

Cubase could be your new BnP.

Good luck and keep your migs.

[amigaksi]

>Key word in the sentence is played.

>But hey what would I know about sound, afterall I only used to setup and calibrate surround sound systems...

>And Hi Def TV's.. Which I have to be honest was more difficult.

It's a subjective experience just listening to sound and claiming both platforms are producing equivalent sound.  I know some people can detect music defects between two compositions that normal people can't detect.  I think they say some people have "musical ears".  Even so with musical ears, it doesn't prove the two platforms are equivalent.

>>You did miss the point. One person experiencing the music to be sounding the same does not prove that every combination music produced will sound the same nor does it prove that it is the same even for that instance for all people. Even MP3 and uncompressed linear audio sounds the same but they are in fact different...

>Which is great and all but you realise there are differences even in different variants of the same models of an Amiga, right? Which kind of leaves your point completely moot.

It doesn't leave the point moot since the hardware spec is the same or a subset in the new hardware spec which is what I stated originally would be needed.  

>As near as damnit is all you will ever get, because even between different variants and models of the Amiga because there are differences.

>For instance, just on the A3000 there were something like 9 different variants, all with subtly different timings and all with their own unique quirks, for instance my particular one was one of only 3 models that could actually boot up without the need for a scsi hard drive to be present. Then there are differences in the chips themselves - some socketed and others surface mounted. All of these things could throw off the results at the level of testing you are on about.

We are talking whether they are equivalent to an Amiga so if the hardware specs of the PC being used to emulate the Amiga sound functionality were a subset or equal to that of Amigas, you can say the two platforms are producing identical sound.  What exactly are the differences between an original (OCS) Amiga 1000 sound functionality and Amiga 4000 sound functionality?  They both use the same timing and equal spec DACs (OCS compatible).  It's a different story when you know the hardware specs are different.

[amigaksi]

>- cubase (steinberg) or nuendo (from the same editor) if you have to work seriously with video files. Nuendo uses the cubase audio engine and offers more slots to load virtual instruments. Midi implementation in steinberg products is very nice.

I think that's the one I saw bundled with Atari ST machines as well, but had some sort of hardware add-on.

[the_leander]

amigaksi wrote:
>Key word in the sentence is played.

>But hey what would I know about sound, afterall I only used to setup and calibrate surround sound systems...

>And Hi Def TV's.. Which I have to be honest was more difficult.

It's a subjective experience just listening to sound and claiming both platforms are producing equivalent sound.  I know some people can detect music defects between two compositions that normal people can't detect.  I think they say some people have "musical ears".  Even so with musical ears, it doesn't prove the two platforms are equivalent.

You mean someone who has, for instance someone who has tested consistantly to having hearing sensitivity and range in the top 1%?

Indeed when I was given the results I was asked if I wouldn't prefer going into training on Sonar equipment rather then going in as a mechanic in the navy...

Dunno about musical ears, but I would pit my hearing against anyones.

amigaksi wrote:
It doesn't leave the point moot since the hardware spec is the same or a subset in the new hardware spec which is what I stated originally would be needed.  

But again, given that there were differences in hardware, in timing, any measurements you took from any given model of Amiga would not necessarily corrolate with the output of another model Amiga or even different variant of the same model. As I said, as near as damnit.

amigaksi wrote:
We are talking whether they are equivalent to an Amiga so if the hardware specs of the PC being used to emulate the Amiga sound functionality were a subset or equal to that of Amigas, you can say the two platforms are producing identical sound.  

Given that even the Realtek AC'97 codec produces sound as good as if not better then any Amiga native chip ever put into production, and that the said codec is considered obsolete these days, in favour of much more advanced and capable chipsets, I really think you can put this arguement to rest.

amigaksi wrote:
What exactly are the differences between an original (OCS) Amiga 1000 sound functionality and Amiga 4000 sound functionality?  They both use the same timing and equal spec DACs (OCS compatible).  It's a different story when you know the hardware specs are different.

For that you would have to ask someone who knows the hardware to that level, I suggest Karlos or Bloodline (fnar!), I do remember them discussing how there was a huge amount of incosistancy within different variants of the same model when they were doing timings testing.

[bloodline]

the_leander wrote:

amigaksi wrote:
What exactly are the differences between an original (OCS) Amiga 1000 sound functionality and Amiga 4000 sound functionality?  They both use the same timing and equal spec DACs (OCS compatible).  It's a different story when you know the hardware specs are different.

For that you would have to ask someone who knows the hardware to that level, I suggest Karlos or Bloodline (fnar!), I do remember them discussing how there was a huge amount of incosistancy within different variants of the same model when they were doing timings testing.

Paula was essentially unchanged across the Amiga range... I don't think it even had a process change so the output should be identical!

The DAC inside Paula was not linear though, and that gives its output a natural colour not found in modern "perfect" DACs.

[cicero790]

ral-clan wrote:
(I've also posted this message to the Bars & Pipes newsgroup - my apologies to those who've already read it there).

Whew, it finally came.  The day when my real Amiga hardware failed.  The Amiga has been the centre of my home recording studio for about 10 years now.  All the backup Amigas I have proved to have "issues" in one way or another that made them unusable for serious audio work.

So...with mixed emotions, it's time to move onto PC for audio recording.  I'll miss the Amiga, but I won't miss the unreliable, aging hardware.  The thing I'll miss most of all is Bars & Pipes (and possibly OctaMED).

So....I'm going to try and buy a PC that can emulate and run Bars & Pipes as if running on a real Amiga.  Is this even possible?  Is anyone doing this in a serious sense?  

I would really appreciate any advice you guys can give me towards running Bars & Pipes with a PC emulator.

- any advice towards buying a PC with a mind towards Amiga emulation?  What sort of microprocessor is good for UAE (Intel? AMD?)
- There is a local PC store which sells reconditioned older PC CPUs for cheap (i.e. $100 for a 1Ghz model).  What is the minimum CPU speed I should consider for smooth Amiga emulation?
- any hardware or software tweaks to get B&P to run smooth under emulation?
- what sort of PC MIDI interfaces can be used with UAE?
- Can Bars & Pipes running in UAE by synchronized with audio recording applications running in Windows (i.e. Protools?) through MTC or Midi Clock?
- Failing a successful use of Bars & Pipes on the PC, is there any Windows software which gives a Bars & Pipes like experience on the PC?

Back in the 90's I used a plain A1200 with midi interface controlling a synthmodule. Two years back I tried a file created with this setup on WINUAE running Bars n pipes and the same module. It actually produced a more tight version on the same piece of music. So if you like Bars n pipes and are happy with the program why not continue using it. If you migrate perhaps you can try SONAR as an alternative to the Steinberg programs its also very good.

[cicero790]

I used WINUAE on XP and a p4 2.6ghz intel northwood for that experiment. It worked fine no tweaks needed.

[amigaksi]

>You mean someone who has, for instance someone who has tested consistantly to having hearing sensitivity and range in the top 1%?
...
>Dunno about musical ears, but I would pit my hearing against anyones.

You missed the point again, instead you are now making another claim which would be hard to prove.  Your experience (by hearing various modules) does not prove that running an emulated amiga sound software and sound software on original amiga is the same.  There may be some sound samples that you have not tried that are different EVEN FOR YOU.  And even those that sound the same FOR YOU, may actually be distorted and different like in the case of MP3 and uncompressed linear audio.  And please read rest of the post before you reply.

>But again, given that there were differences in hardware, in timing,

There aren't timing differences in all the Amiga models (as per spec and as I have tried it) so it's not a given.

>>amigaksi wrote:
>>We are talking whether they are equivalent to an Amiga so if the hardware specs of the PC being used to emulate the Amiga sound functionality were a subset or equal to that of Amigas, you can say the two platforms are producing identical sound.

>Given that even the Realtek AC'97 codec produces sound as good as if not better then any Amiga native chip ever put into production, and that the said codec is considered obsolete these days, in favour of much more advanced and capable chipsets, I really think you can put this arguement to rest.

Again, I am also stating that if the hardware is a subset of the Amiga hardware like OCS is of ECS & AGA, yeah it should give identical output.  However, the point is whether the Amiga emulated sound output is the same as Amiga sound output on original.  All I need to show is ONE example where it's different and THAT puts the argument to rest.  I already have tried to port over Amiga slideshow software with background audio running to the PC with a Sound Blaster and IT IS DIFFERENT!  The Sound Blaster happen to have a 1,000,000Hz crystal to compute sampling rates and the Amiga uses a 3,579,500Hz timer so in this case using a divisor of 325 to get around 11Khz rate when ported to a Sound Blaster deviated the sampling rate enough that every few minutes the sound went out of sync by a second or so thus ruining the slideshow's sync with the audio.  And don't tell me the PC timer can be used to emulate the sampling since that timer is also only 1.19318 Mhz.

[amigaksi]

>by cicero790 on 2008/8/11 18:25:59

>I used WINUAE on XP and a p4 2.6ghz intel northwood for that experiment. It worked fine no tweaks needed.

I just saw as much of the earth as I could and it's flat.  Sorry, but we need to modify the history books and as far as all those fairy tales of people flying around the earth, that was due to nonlinear space and using modulo arithmetic axes of space you can fly from one end and pop in on the other end and leaving the earth as still being flat fitting in with many people's observations.

[mikrucio]

this topic has been covered a multitude of times.
so im not going to add anything to it other than....

Firewire and usb2 are exactly the same throughput speed wise.

However Firewire is lower latency.
which makes it more suitable for Audio use.

Also nothing EVER sounds like the REAL THING.
Iv got a SIDSTATION and a plugin for SID in cubase
while it sounds great it doesnt sound like the sidstation.

The Amiga's 8bit sound chip sounds MUCH better than any other 8bit emulation or hardware.

You may now continue your argument.

[Wolfeman]

man, there are a lot of opinionated mo-fos in this thread [on this forum?]

@wilse
Mac USB is slower, you can google various benchmark tests, that's just a fact. argue it all you want. I'm extremely happy for you if it doesn't haunt you or bother you, seriously, but PLEASE spare me the down-the-nose "addytude" regarding your belief of the phenomenon. It is not hogwash, horsefeathers, or otherwise delusional. Firewire is more stable and allows for a  lot less latency, especially if you run a 24+ track system like I do where I am recording entire bands live and 16+ tracks recording in at once is the norm. case closed

@bloodline:
I did read that you used macs but your initial reply to me was rather... umm... well, let's just put it behind us and never speak of it again.

you guys are awesome, seriously, I love people who are as passionate about their music and their gadgets as I am.

cheers

[the_leander]

amigaksi wrote:
>You mean someone who has, for instance someone who has tested consistantly to having hearing sensitivity and range in the top 1%?
...
>Dunno about musical ears, but I would pit my hearing against anyones.

You missed the point again, instead you are now making another claim which would be hard to prove.

My hearing tests and their results are a matter of record.

What, you want me to get a photostat of them for you?

amigaksi wrote:
  Your experience (by hearing various modules) does not prove that running an emulated amiga sound software and sound software on original amiga is the same.  There may be some sound samples that you have not tried that are different EVEN FOR YOU.  And even those that sound the same FOR YOU, may actually be distorted and different like in the case of MP3 and uncompressed linear audio.  And please read rest of the post before you reply.

The reason some lower rate mp3's sound "better" over Paula (though AHI) then say on a pc is that Paula is very good at dealing with the lower frequencies then most AC97 chipsets. That said, on a high bitrate mp3, the differences become obvious, with the PC producing a much cleaner sounding piece. In fact I believe Dave Haynie once wrote a full series of articles regarding this on Usenet some years back. (No, I am not going to start wading through comp.sys.amiga.hardware for it).

amigaksi wrote:
>But again, given that there were differences in hardware, in timing,

There aren't timing differences in all the Amiga models (as per spec and as I have tried it) so it's not a given.

But there are on some and that alone is enough to debunk your arguement.

amigaksi wrote:

Again, I am also stating that if the hardware is a subset of the Amiga hardware like OCS is of ECS & AGA, yeah it should give identical output.  However, the point is whether the Amiga emulated sound output is the same as Amiga sound output on original.  All I need to show is ONE example where it's different and THAT puts the argument to rest.  I already have tried to port over Amiga slideshow software with background audio running to the PC with a Sound Blaster and IT IS DIFFERENT!  The Sound Blaster happen to have a 1,000,000Hz crystal to compute sampling rates and the Amiga uses a 3,579,500Hz timer so in this case using a divisor of 325 to get around 11Khz rate when ported to a Sound Blaster deviated the sampling rate enough that every few minutes the sound went out of sync by a second or so thus ruining the slideshow's sync with the audio.  And don't tell me the PC timer can be used to emulate the sampling since that timer is also only 1.19318 Mhz.

That is not using an Emulator though, is it? It's a port using native hardware without any form of emulation wrapper. Also, if you know the basic sampling speeds of two devices you should be able to correct for one to the other to maintain sync.

Again, this isn't what it was discussing, what we were discussing was that an Emulation of an 8bit (or 14bit through AHI) sound chip over vastly superior hardware is going to produce the same effect as using the original hardware. The answer, to my ears, and to the ears of a professional music producer and artist is yes.

You can argue that it might not be "exact" when measured under some insanely convoluted system of your choosing that no human ear could ever detect in a million years, but that isn't the point, the point is, does it sound different, are there distortions between emulation and real, the answer is no.

[Raffaele]

ral-clan wrote:
(I've also posted this message to the Bars & Pipes newsgroup - my apologies to those who've already read it there).

Whew, it finally came.  The day when my real Amiga hardware failed.  The Amiga has been the centre of my home recording studio for about 10 years now.  All the backup Amigas I have proved to have "issues" in one way or another that made them unusable for serious audio work.

What kind of issues???

Lack of speed?

Lack of timing?

Hardware failures?

Hard disks flapping wings sound?

Corrupted floppy drives?

Have you accelerated Amigas A1200 or A4000 that are suitable to be expanded with Mediator PCI and adding some PC audio cards?

(For Amiga it exists AHI Drivers for Soundblaster 4.1 digital, Soundblaster 128 and Terratec512i Digital [perhaps maybe even some Audigy cards... I do not remember).

The AHI-standard drivers for music cards provide support for Sound Blaster PCI128 cards based on ES1371, ES1373, CT5880 and EV1938 chipsets.

Or perhaps do you have some modern Amigas that can run modern Amiga audio software flawlessly?

(AmigaONE, Pegasos)

So...with mixed emotions, it's time to move onto PC for audio recording.  I'll miss the Amiga, but I won't miss the unreliable, aging hardware.  The thing I'll miss most of all is Bars & Pipes (and possibly OctaMED).

Can't you ENHANCE your actual Amiga by purchasing a PC and creating a home network?

So....I'm going to try and buy a PC that can emulate and run Bars & Pipes as if running on a real Amiga.  Is this even possible?  Is anyone doing this in a serious sense?

YES!

You can run WinUAE and run Bars & Pipes from it.

ALSO:

Alfred Faust provides a PC version of SuperJam licensed for free download on his site:

http://www.hansfaust.de/barsnpipes/index.html

It is good Amiga software ported on PCs. Old but still reliable...

- There is a local PC store which sells reconditioned older PC CPUs for cheap (i.e. $100 for a 1Ghz model).  What is the minimum CPU speed I should consider for smooth Amiga emulation?

1850MHZ (AMD 2500+ FSB400) or Pentium IV 2GHz is a MUST in my experience...

- any hardware or software tweaks to get B&P to run smooth under emulation?

What do you mean by that?

First: download WinUAE...

Then you choose preferred Amiga emulation 68000, 68020, 68040, the correct emulation timing for Amiga emulated chips...

Set the MIDI from emulator...

Create virtual hard disk or reserve a PC partition to emulator

Install your own kickstart 3.x and AmigaOS 3.x

Download and install most recent version of B&P from Alfred Faust site...

DONE

- what sort of PC MIDI interfaces can be used with UAE?

UAE usually refers to onboard windows drivers and uses local hardware

No need for more...

- Can Bars & Pipes running in UAE by synchronized with audio recording applications running in Windows (i.e. Protools?) through MTC or Midi Clock?

Check with cronometer (or professional SMPTE controller) and control if there are problems of timinsg issues, flaws, or entire sequence were were dropped.

Check with professional phonometer if there are any differences in the sound output.

If you find no problems by checking with cronometer and phonometer, then you are up and running!

REMEMBER:

Emulation is a very hard task, Amiga Emulation is a very pain for crappy PC hardware (EVEN OVERPUMPED PC HARDWARE) and in machines under 1GHz can cause problems in emulated Amiga if running Audio software and running at the same time Audio PC programs from the PC side...

This is why a local network o computers is the preferred choice...

- Failing a successful use of Bars & Pipes on the PC, is there any Windows software which gives a Bars & Pipes like experience on the PC?

Cubasis??? (+Cubase)

Pro-tools???


However try to FIX your hardware problems with Amiga and check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:


- HD-REC

http://www.hd-rec.de/

HD-Rec is a powerful MIDI/audio sequencer for Amiga OS. It combines comfortable MIDI notation with extensive audio editing within the same application, running always 100% synchron. To achieve this, HD-Rec takes full advantage of the AHI system for audio and the CAMD system for MIDI input and output. HD-Rec is 100% system friendly, so you can be sure that it will run on your existing and future hardware.
HD-Rec has a powerful plugin interface allowing a wide range of plugins, like patch editors, softsynth or visualisation plugins. Beside this, it has an easy interface for audio effects, like a high quality reverb, delay, chorus and more.

*very user friendly and intuitive to use
*16 bit / 11.025-96.0 kHz non-destructive audio recording & editing, not limited by RAM
*32 bit audio realtime effects (reverb, delay, chorus, compressor...)
*Bars&Pipes style notator for MIDI elements
*Audiomaster style editor for audio elements
*uses AHI for audio and CAMD for MIDI
*powerful plugin system for MIDI/audio applications like softsynths or patcheditors
*256 tracks (MIDI/audio)
*supports .aiff, .wav, .maud, .raw, .cdda, .8svx, .mp3, .mod and .mid files

Works better on new Amigas equpped with audiocards and AHI...


- Digibooster PRO tracker

http://www.digiboosterpro.de/indexe.php

DBPro is a so called tracker program. It´s possible to produce your own music by using samples. So called pattern will be programmed by typing in sequences and commandos. Put together the patterns lead to a whole music track.

With the current version of DBPro it is possible to manage up to:

Trackfeatures:
128 Tracks
256 Samples (sound files with no size limitation)
1024 Patterns
1024 Positions

within one song.

Track format loading:
Digibooster 1.x (digi)
Protracker (mod)
Oktalyzer (okt)
Octamed (mmd0-mmd3)
OctamedSoundStudio (oss)
FastTracker (xm)
ScreamTracker (s3m)

There is the possibility to save the tracks not only as the Dbm format but also as Xm or Mod format.

Sample format loading:
IFF 8SVX (mono - 8 Bit)
IFF 16SV (mono - 16 Bit)
RIFF WAV (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
AIFF (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
MP3 (CBR) Import LayerI-III

With the following extras there are nearly no limits for the creativity:
(B)eats (P)er (M)inute Pitcher
DSP Echo (Echo Delay, Feedback, Mix and Cross)
Volume envelopes
Balance envelopes
Roland TB-303 "GrooveBox" Emulation 8not realtime)
HD recording for samples using AHI Harddiskrecord
Optional realtime 32 bit HIFI mixing with linear interpolation
Two different commands per trace at the same time
Almost all shortcuts and commands are compatible with ProTracker
Up to 7 Oktaven
CyberGraphX & Picasso96 card support
and many more ...

Thanks to AHI support every AHI soundcard can be used

With a little patience, interest and some feeling for rhythm within your venes you will soon discover all those various possibilities for producing music with Digibooster Professional.

We wish you thereby much success and fun!

System requirements:

(Amiga - Minimum configuration)
68020 CPU
2 MB availble RAM
Kickstart 2.0
ahi.device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library

(Amiga - Recommended configuration)
68060 CPU
10 MB availble RAM (for huge projects with 16 bit samples even more might be required)
Kickstart 3.1
Gfx card
Sound card

(Pegasos - configuration)
Gx CPU (Since 68k is still emulated at present)
min. 2 MB availble RAM
MorphOs 1.4
ahi-device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library

- Audio Evolution

http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/index.html

Up to 60 (stereo) samples simultaneously (depending on processor power and harddisk controller).

Any sample rate is supported (depending on the used soundcard).

Full duplex recording for simultaneous recording and playback.

Each mixer channel gives you control over the following features:
Volume
Panning
Mute
Solo
Subgroup (1-4) assignment
3 insert effects with on/off switch
3-band EQ with on/off switch
4 Aux sends

Every channel has a separate PPM volume display.

Separate window for 4 subgroups with volume, mute and solo per group.

Full mixer-automation: channel volume, panning, mutes, master volume, subgroup volumes, subgroup mutes and even insert effect parameters can be automated. Automation events can be edited directly on the timeline or through an event list. They can also be recorded during playback by mouse or MIDI remote control (touch and latch mode).

OS4 native realtime effects with real-time parameter control, on/off switch and metering (where applicable). Possible CPU overload is detected, preventing lock-ups during playback.

Expansion window with direct access to a 3-band equalizer and 4 auxillaries (effect sends).

Non-destructive non-linear editing (cut, copy, paste, move, split, trim, crossfade) using the time line display.

Unlimited undo for time line editing operations.

Regionize tool: find pauses or moments of relative silence and automatically place markers or split the region into subregions. The marker information can be exported to the CD burning package BurnIt which is great for mastering old vinyl records or live recordings: all separate tracks can be identified automatically.

Grid options to align regions: grid size can be set in milliseconds, bars/beats up to 1/64th note and videoframes (24, 25, 30fps)

A marker mechanism on top of the timeline lets you place locators, punch in/out markers and the time marker easily, giving quick and accurate access to these items.

Metronome and time signature settings.

Separate window for (destructive) sample editing with the usual features like cut, copy, paste and erase range. Direct to disk, not limited by memory.

Effect plug-ins like Compressor, Delay, Noise Gate, Chorus, 3-Band EQ, Parametric EQ and Reverb can be applied both realtime and non-realtime.

Synchronisation to other equipment or applications:
MIDI (by direct serial port communication or using the CAMD library):
By sending a MIDI start-command and a Song Position Pointer, you can synchronize audio with an external MIDI sequencer. You can also receive MIDI start-commands.
AREXX
Bars&Pipes sync tool
Master Control Bus to synchronize to and control other applications that support the MCB. The MCB will be released for OS4.


Dolby Pro Logic encoder for mastering 4 mono tracks to the Dolby Pro Logic surround format. Note that this is only an experimental tool: no realtime auditioning or sound positioning is possible.

Project-based: a separate directory for each separate project is created to manage your samples in an easier way

- AHX

http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/main.html

AHX is a protracker-like music editor that was designed especially to create C64-like synthetic tunes. There is no support for sampled instruments as chip tunes are made to be as small in size as possible. So an average AHX tune has a length of about 200 bytes - 5 kbytes (unpacked). All waveforms of the C64 are supported: Triangle, Sawtooth, Square and White Noise. Also Hi-/Lo-Pass filtering effects are supported (ring-modulation is hopefully to come in AHXv3). Check out the News/Updates-Page for the changes in the current version!


Finally the 68000-Version of the Editor is out (BIG THanX to Buzz/Maniacs for giving me the source of his hacked 2.1-000er version-it helped a lot!)

Fixed some minor bugs and added some little features. Refer to the History file please.

Fully Protracker keyboard-compatible track editor featuring variable pattern-length, single-voice patterns, Protracker-Module-Import and Optimize-function.

Sub-Songs.

Powerful synthetic instruments-editor featuring all C64 waveforms as triangle, sawtooth, square and white noise.

Instrument-specific apreggio-/macro list featuring fixed/variable notes.

Player features: square modulation, vibrato control, note slide, transpose, hi-/lo-pass filter, hardcut, multiple speed CIA, 68000-compatible, supports using your own cia for multiple speed modules now!

Full multitasking- and graphics board-support. (Runs on CyberGraphix, etc.)

Built in AmigaGuide help; internal help system to explain all commands etc.

VolumeMeters, CPU-usage display

AmigaOS-compliant: uses ASL- and Intuition-Requesters.

Fully controlable via keyboard, no long mouse-movements needed.

Player for Delitracker (using DeliTracker's NotePlayer system) shipped.

Binary-/Assembler-/BlitzBasicII-Player for your own productions included, AmosPro-Player, E-Module and C/C++ Module available (see Productions page for links).

- Amiga SoundFX

http://www.sonicpulse.de/eng/p_sfx.html

more than 50 effects, with many parameters and complexs ways to modulate them, like :
SoundSynthesis (AM,FM,...)
3D-Cube-Parametermodulation (Mix, Equalize)
Effects e.g. Hall, Echo, Delay, Chorus/Phaser, Morph, Pitchshift ...
Operations e.g. Resample, ZeroPass (FadeIn/FadeOut), Middle, Amplify, Mix, DeCrackle, ConvertChannels ...
2D/3D-Spectrumanalysis
very good filters and boosters with resonancy !!!
nearly every parameter could be modulated in the following ways :
none : no modulation, static processing
curve : fades smooth from one value to a second one with variable curvature
cycle : oszilates between two value with different waveforms, frequency and phase are adjustable
vector : envelope editor
user : a samplebuffer modulates the value, contains several mappings, can even grab the modulator volume or pitch-envelope
SoundFX has several alpha-channels (one for each important parameter), furthermore SoundFX can generate alpha-channels algorithmically.
more than 100 presets are included
features 4 different interpolations types
fx,loaders and savers are external program modules and will be loaded on first use
reads and writes many sample formats including various compression types
(IFF-8SVX,IFF-16SV,IFF-AIFF,IFF-AIFC,MP3,RAW,RIFF-WAV,VOC,SND-AU,...)
clippboard support (with all 256 clipunits)
you can work with many samples at once (every sample has it's own sizeable window)
works in mono, stereo and quadro
works with samples on disk (when running out of memory)
sampledata is held in memory or on disk with 16bit quality
high quality, because of floatingpoint-arithmetic (80/64bit) during calculations
plays in 8bit,14bit and 14bit-calibrated on the standart paula-chip, players are using only up to 4kByte Chipmemory
AHI-player (for soundcard-owners)  
unlimited X and Y zooming
X and Y axis in samplewindows
features lots of different units for entering parameters and displaying axis
extensivly expanded mark and range editing
font, screenmode and sizesensitive gui
appicon support
systemconform programmed (tested with cyberguard, wipeout and blowup)
and many more features (read guide)

MIND THE FACT that:

Amiga Inc. and Hyperion are scheduled to meet for an AGREEMENT ATTEMPT by local judge...

Maybe for next september we will see very good news for Amiga, AmigaOS, Amiga Software and Hardware.

[cicero790]

amigaksi wrote:
>by cicero790 on 2008/8/11 18:25:59

>I used WINUAE on XP and a p4 2.6ghz intel northwood for that experiment. It worked fine no tweaks needed.

I just saw as much of the earth as I could and it's flat.  Sorry, but we need to modify the history books and as far as all those fairy tales of people flying around the earth, that was due to nonlinear space and using modulo arithmetic axes of space you can fly from one end and pop in on the other end and leaving the earth as still being flat fitting in with many people's observations.

I like your passion to much to answer, but my little experiment is completely valid. Also, most programs in this thread will do the job its just a matter of taste. Finally, recording in a ridiculously high sampling frequency does not replace a sky high musical IQ.  I think it’s extremely cool to continue using BnP in WINUAE on PC. Just look what Rob Hubbard did with so little on the C64.

[Wilse]

Wolfeman wrote:
man, there are a lot of opinionated mo-fos in this thread [on this forum?]

Aye, opinions are like erseholes, eh? Everybody's got one.

:roll:

@wilse
Mac USB is slower, you can google various benchmark tests, that's just a fact. argue it all you want.

You are arguing with yourself, I'm afraid.
At no point did I state USB wasn't slower.

You told the original poster to "stay away" from any audio or HD USB peripherals.

What I said was there is no need to avoid USB *if* you are on a budget.
I stand by this and, for my purposes,  the differences between it and firewire are negligible.
You have then decided to turn this into a completely irrelevant argument about which is faster in a benchmark test.
To this I say again, horsefeathers! ;-)

I'm extremely happy for you if it doesn't haunt you or bother you, seriously, but PLEASE spare me the down-the-nose "addytude" regarding your belief of the phenomenon.

What on earth are you talking about?
It is *You* who is trying to tell *me* that I should only use FW because it is "faster".
My experience says I can happily get by with USB yet *you* persist. (Despite admitting to using USB yourself.)
If anyone has a "down-the-nose addytude," it is you, sir.

 if you run a 24+ track system like I do where I am recording entire bands live and 16+ tracks recording in at once is the norm.

As I already explained, most of my projects are between 10-20 tracks and I rarely record more than two at a time. FW may indeed be the *only* way to go for you but that does not neccessarily apply to the rest of us.

To recap:
I had an exclusively FW audio/MIDI/HD set up on my Macbook.
It started freaking out and I had to use USB for some of it.
The USB works fine for my purposes.
It *may or may not* also work fine for the original poster.
If money is a consideration, the above may be helpful to him.

Whether it is slower on benchmark tests is irrelevant in this context.

Labouring the point in spite of this gives an impression of snobbiness.

case closed

If you say so, m'lud!

:pint:

[A6000]

Raffaele wrote:
check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:


- HD-REC

http://www.hd-rec.de/

HD-Rec is a powerful MIDI/audio sequencer for Amiga OS. It combines comfortable MIDI notation with extensive audio editing within the same application, running always 100% synchron. To achieve this, HD-Rec takes full advantage of the AHI system for audio and the CAMD system for MIDI input and output. HD-Rec is 100% system friendly, so you can be sure that it will run on your existing and future hardware.
HD-Rec has a powerful plugin interface allowing a wide range of plugins, like patch editors, softsynth or visualisation plugins. Beside this, it has an easy interface for audio effects, like a high quality reverb, delay, chorus and more.

*very user friendly and intuitive to use
*16 bit / 11.025-96.0 kHz non-destructive audio recording & editing, not limited by RAM
*32 bit audio realtime effects (reverb, delay, chorus, compressor...)
*Bars&Pipes style notator for MIDI elements
*Audiomaster style editor for audio elements
*uses AHI for audio and CAMD for MIDI
*powerful plugin system for MIDI/audio applications like softsynths or patcheditors
*256 tracks (MIDI/audio)
*supports .aiff, .wav, .maud, .raw, .cdda, .8svx, .mp3, .mod and .mid files

Works better on new Amigas equpped with audiocards and AHI...


- Digibooster PRO tracker

http://www.digiboosterpro.de/indexe.php

DBPro is a so called tracker program. It´s possible to produce your own music by using samples. So called pattern will be programmed by typing in sequences and commandos. Put together the patterns lead to a whole music track.

With the current version of DBPro it is possible to manage up to:

Trackfeatures:
128 Tracks
256 Samples (sound files with no size limitation)
1024 Patterns
1024 Positions

within one song.

Track format loading:
Digibooster 1.x (digi)
Protracker (mod)
Oktalyzer (okt)
Octamed (mmd0-mmd3)
OctamedSoundStudio (oss)
FastTracker (xm)
ScreamTracker (s3m)

There is the possibility to save the tracks not only as the Dbm format but also as Xm or Mod format.

Sample format loading:
IFF 8SVX (mono - 8 Bit)
IFF 16SV (mono - 16 Bit)
RIFF WAV (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
AIFF (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
MP3 (CBR) Import LayerI-III

With the following extras there are nearly no limits for the creativity:
(B)eats (P)er (M)inute Pitcher
DSP Echo (Echo Delay, Feedback, Mix and Cross)
Volume envelopes
Balance envelopes
Roland TB-303 "GrooveBox" Emulation 8not realtime)
HD recording for samples using AHI Harddiskrecord
Optional realtime 32 bit HIFI mixing with linear interpolation
Two different commands per trace at the same time
Almost all shortcuts and commands are compatible with ProTracker
Up to 7 Oktaven
CyberGraphX & Picasso96 card support
and many more ...

Thanks to AHI support every AHI soundcard can be used

With a little patience, interest and some feeling for rhythm within your venes you will soon discover all those various possibilities for producing music with Digibooster Professional.

We wish you thereby much success and fun!

System requirements:

(Amiga - Minimum configuration)
68020 CPU
2 MB availble RAM
Kickstart 2.0
ahi.device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library

(Amiga - Recommended configuration)
68060 CPU
10 MB availble RAM (for huge projects with 16 bit samples even more might be required)
Kickstart 3.1
Gfx card
Sound card

(Pegasos - configuration)
Gx CPU (Since 68k is still emulated at present)
min. 2 MB availble RAM
MorphOs 1.4
ahi-device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library

- Audio Evolution

http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/index.html

Up to 60 (stereo) samples simultaneously (depending on processor power and harddisk controller).

Any sample rate is supported (depending on the used soundcard).

Full duplex recording for simultaneous recording and playback.

Each mixer channel gives you control over the following features:
Volume
Panning
Mute
Solo
Subgroup (1-4) assignment
3 insert effects with on/off switch
3-band EQ with on/off switch
4 Aux sends

Every channel has a separate PPM volume display.

Separate window for 4 subgroups with volume, mute and solo per group.

Full mixer-automation: channel volume, panning, mutes, master volume, subgroup volumes, subgroup mutes and even insert effect parameters can be automated. Automation events can be edited directly on the timeline or through an event list. They can also be recorded during playback by mouse or MIDI remote control (touch and latch mode).

OS4 native realtime effects with real-time parameter control, on/off switch and metering (where applicable). Possible CPU overload is detected, preventing lock-ups during playback.

Expansion window with direct access to a 3-band equalizer and 4 auxillaries (effect sends).

Non-destructive non-linear editing (cut, copy, paste, move, split, trim, crossfade) using the time line display.

Unlimited undo for time line editing operations.

Regionize tool: find pauses or moments of relative silence and automatically place markers or split the region into subregions. The marker information can be exported to the CD burning package BurnIt which is great for mastering old vinyl records or live recordings: all separate tracks can be identified automatically.

Grid options to align regions: grid size can be set in milliseconds, bars/beats up to 1/64th note and videoframes (24, 25, 30fps)

A marker mechanism on top of the timeline lets you place locators, punch in/out markers and the time marker easily, giving quick and accurate access to these items.

Metronome and time signature settings.

Separate window for (destructive) sample editing with the usual features like cut, copy, paste and erase range. Direct to disk, not limited by memory.

Effect plug-ins like Compressor, Delay, Noise Gate, Chorus, 3-Band EQ, Parametric EQ and Reverb can be applied both realtime and non-realtime.

Synchronisation to other equipment or applications:
MIDI (by direct serial port communication or using the CAMD library):
By sending a MIDI start-command and a Song Position Pointer, you can synchronize audio with an external MIDI sequencer. You can also receive MIDI start-commands.
AREXX
Bars&Pipes sync tool
Master Control Bus to synchronize to and control other applications that support the MCB. The MCB will be released for OS4.


Dolby Pro Logic encoder for mastering 4 mono tracks to the Dolby Pro Logic surround format. Note that this is only an experimental tool: no realtime auditioning or sound positioning is possible.

Project-based: a separate directory for each separate project is created to manage your samples in an easier way

- AHX

http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/main.html

AHX is a protracker-like music editor that was designed especially to create C64-like synthetic tunes. There is no support for sampled instruments as chip tunes are made to be as small in size as possible. So an average AHX tune has a length of about 200 bytes - 5 kbytes (unpacked). All waveforms of the C64 are supported: Triangle, Sawtooth, Square and White Noise. Also Hi-/Lo-Pass filtering effects are supported (ring-modulation is hopefully to come in AHXv3). Check out the News/Updates-Page for the changes in the current version!


Finally the 68000-Version of the Editor is out (BIG THanX to Buzz/Maniacs for giving me the source of his hacked 2.1-000er version-it helped a lot!)

Fixed some minor bugs and added some little features. Refer to the History file please.

Fully Protracker keyboard-compatible track editor featuring variable pattern-length, single-voice patterns, Protracker-Module-Import and Optimize-function.

Sub-Songs.

Powerful synthetic instruments-editor featuring all C64 waveforms as triangle, sawtooth, square and white noise.

Instrument-specific apreggio-/macro list featuring fixed/variable notes.

Player features: square modulation, vibrato control, note slide, transpose, hi-/lo-pass filter, hardcut, multiple speed CIA, 68000-compatible, supports using your own cia for multiple speed modules now!

Full multitasking- and graphics board-support. (Runs on CyberGraphix, etc.)

Built in AmigaGuide help; internal help system to explain all commands etc.

VolumeMeters, CPU-usage display

AmigaOS-compliant: uses ASL- and Intuition-Requesters.

Fully controlable via keyboard, no long mouse-movements needed.

Player for Delitracker (using DeliTracker's NotePlayer system) shipped.

Binary-/Assembler-/BlitzBasicII-Player for your own productions included, AmosPro-Player, E-Module and C/C++ Module available (see Productions page for links).

- Amiga SoundFX

http://www.sonicpulse.de/eng/p_sfx.html

more than 50 effects, with many parameters and complexs ways to modulate them, like :
SoundSynthesis (AM,FM,...)
3D-Cube-Parametermodulation (Mix, Equalize)
Effects e.g. Hall, Echo, Delay, Chorus/Phaser, Morph, Pitchshift ...
Operations e.g. Resample, ZeroPass (FadeIn/FadeOut), Middle, Amplify, Mix, DeCrackle, ConvertChannels ...
2D/3D-Spectrumanalysis
very good filters and boosters with resonancy !!!
nearly every parameter could be modulated in the following ways :
none : no modulation, static processing
curve : fades smooth from one value to a second one with variable curvature
cycle : oszilates between two value with different waveforms, frequency and phase are adjustable
vector : envelope editor
user : a samplebuffer modulates the value, contains several mappings, can even grab the modulator volume or pitch-envelope
SoundFX has several alpha-channels (one for each important parameter), furthermore SoundFX can generate alpha-channels algorithmically.
more than 100 presets are included
features 4 different interpolations types
fx,loaders and savers are external program modules and will be loaded on first use
reads and writes many sample formats including various compression types
(IFF-8SVX,IFF-16SV,IFF-AIFF,IFF-AIFC,MP3,RAW,RIFF-WAV,VOC,SND-AU,...)
clippboard support (with all 256 clipunits)
you can work with many samples at once (every sample has it's own sizeable window)
works in mono, stereo and quadro
works with samples on disk (when running out of memory)
sampledata is held in memory or on disk with 16bit quality
high quality, because of floatingpoint-arithmetic (80/64bit) during calculations
plays in 8bit,14bit and 14bit-calibrated on the standart paula-chip, players are using only up to 4kByte Chipmemory
AHI-player (for soundcard-owners)  
unlimited X and Y zooming
X and Y axis in samplewindows
features lots of different units for entering parameters and displaying axis
extensivly expanded mark and range editing
font, screenmode and sizesensitive gui
appicon support
systemconform programmed (tested with cyberguard, wipeout and blowup)
and many more features (read guide)

Would wayne or raffaele move this information to the amiga audio forum where it will be more easily found in future.
Thanks for this info raffaele.