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AuthorTopic: AmigaDE Case and US Courts  (Read 1810 times)

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Offline asian1

AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« on: August 21, 2003, 01:19:40 PM »
Hello
There is a case between Amiga Inc and Genesi
about AmigaDE porting agreement to Thendic-France
PDA hardware.
Genesi (Mr Bill Buck) claimed that they had won
the case, however Amiga (Mr Bill McEwen) denied
about any judgement on the case.
I want to ask:
1. If there is a judgment on the case, there
should be at least a public announcement.
Can someone point out the official court website?
2. There are 3 different courts in State of
Washington:
* Municipal / Regional / City Court.
  Most case are handled by this court.
* District / Circuit court.
  If one of the parties on Municipal court case
  don't want to  accept the judgment, they can
  appeal the case to district court.
* Appelate court / court of last resort.
If Genesi won the case on Municipal court and
Amiga Inc submit an appeal to District court,
there is a judgment on the case but the case
IS NOT resolved / finished. Is this the current
situation?
3. Tao Group (UK): Because TAO is a UK company,
the US court ruling does not apply to TAO Group.
Beside the agreement is between Amiga Inc and
Thendic, and TAO IS NOT INVOLVED in the
agreement. Is this true?
4. It is impossible to port AmigaDE to Pegasos,
without porting the basic software (INTENT).
AmigaDE run on top of INTENT. If someone
port AmigaDE to Pegasos without porting INTENT,
how can they run the AmigaDE without any Intent?
Thank's.
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2003, 01:44:38 PM »
@asian1

I'm going to stay away from the court case, because I know nothing about it.

Quote
3. Tao Group (UK): Because TAO is a UK company, the US court ruling does not apply to TAO Group. Beside the agreement is between Amiga Inc and Thendic, and TAO IS NOT INVOLVED in the agreement. Is this true?


It depends on the contract between TAO and Amiga Inc, and what rights TAO give Amiga Inc in that contract.

Certainly it is the case that Amiga Inc cannot turn over any Intent source code to Genesi, no matter what the court says, unless the contract between TAO and Amiga Inc grants them the right to distribute the source code under certain conditions.

Quote
4. It is impossible to port AmigaDE to Pegasos, without porting the basic software (INTENT). AmigaDE run on top of INTENT. If someone port AmigaDE to Pegasos without porting INTENT, how can they run the AmigaDE without any Intent?


They can't. Either the contract between TAO and Amiga Inc gives the latter the right to distribute the source under license, or else Genesi must reach a separate agreement with TAO.

There is a third possibility: The contract between Amiga and TAO could require the latter to port Intent to any platform to whom Amiga Inc legitimately license AmigaDE (or AmigaAnywhere or whatever they want to call it this week).
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline raddydaddy

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2003, 02:31:10 PM »
Is it just me or Ainc shooting themselves in the foot?

(and spending valuable funds and time inappropriately!)

...// [Xe]54  \\...
\\\\.._________[Xe]54___________../
 

Offline Casper

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2003, 02:35:04 PM »
Quote
Is it just me or Ainc shooting themselves in the foot?


I'm not sure they had much choice. It was Genesi that sued Ainc, not the other way around.
 

Offline raddydaddy

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2003, 03:44:18 PM »
Sure, but what would Ainc lose from porting the DE?

After all wasn't the point of the DE so that one piece of software would run on all systems without having to be recompiled?

Bearing in mind that a relatively large fraction of the community has / will put it's amiga faith in the Peg, this just seems to be another fence in between the members of our community.  

At the end of the day, if Ainc are aiming to get the DE onto our computers so that we can enjoy the benefits of their unified solution, they need to put the software onto all the machines of the people who support them. After all without the unity in community - Ainc will have even less support!

Do the decent thing Ainc - port the DE onto ALL platforms (just like your original plan 4 years ago) and rather than spend time and resources on preventing your success,  use this time and money to produce a decent OS layer for your DE!

..// [Xe]54 \\..
\\\\.._________[Xe]54___________../
 

Offline anarchic_teapot

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2003, 03:58:27 PM »
Quote

raddydaddy wrote:
Sure, but what would Ainc lose from porting the DE?

Time and money, both things they can ill afford?

Quote
Bearing in mind that a relatively large fraction of the community has / will put it's amiga faith in the Peg, this just seems to be another fence in between the members of our community.  

The Amiga community itself is not large, and DE doesn't even run on the official AmigaOS yet.
As for relying on future Pegasos sales, that's a bit difficult when the current model is supposed to be practically sold out and there's no sign as yet of the touted replacement.

By all means have your beliefs, but try to season them with a bit of perspective.
AT
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2003, 04:02:51 PM »
@raddydaddy

Quote
Sure, but what would Ainc lose from porting the DE?


I don't think the issue is about porting DE as much as it is about letting Genesi use the "Amiga" trademark to market their products.

Apparently the contract Genesi have allows them to do this for any system on which AmigaDE runs, so if the contract is valid and binding, then porting AmigaDE to MorphOS (or even Linux PPC) may well allow them to market the Pegasos as an "Amiga" system.

AmigaDE itself is pretty useless for desktop application at the moment, and a very poor choice for the "write once run everywhere" developer today.  This may change, but considering progress over the past three years, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline Athlon

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2003, 04:43:36 PM »
U.S. COURTS ARE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER....THEY ARE CROOKS !!
 

Offline meerschaum

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2003, 04:45:54 PM »
anarchic_teapot

thats BS because bbrv already said THEY would do the porting, it wouldnt cost Amiga.inc a dime.
 

Offline dammy

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2003, 06:28:21 PM »
by asian1 on 2003/8/21 8:19:40



It's in neither of those three courts as those are state level. Genesi filed it US Federal Courts which is a whole different venue then state courts.

Dammy
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline raddydaddy

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2003, 12:39:58 PM »
Quote
Anarchic_Teapot : "Time and money, both things they can ill afford?"


As meerschaum rightly points out, it would not cost Ainc either time nor money.  :-P

Quote
"The Amiga community itself is not large, and DE doesn't even run on the official AmigaOS yet."


This is quite true - but at the end of the day, who are Ainc marketting their product to anyway? I haven't seen any Amiga ads in any PC or Mac magazine, in fact the Amiga community is all they have left. After all who would be daft enough to shell out THAT kind of money for  software that is more expensive and less developed that its peers?  :-o

Quote
As for relying on future Pegasos sales, that's a bit difficult when the current model is supposed to be practically sold out and there's no sign as yet of the touted replacement.


Eh! Are you suggesting that the Pegasos is not going to be successful by suggesting that Ainc shouldn't, "Rely on future Pegasos sales?".  If so, why do you then go on to say that the current Pegasos range has "Practically sold out".  Thats a bit of a paradox, but in any case, you seem to have missed the point of the discussion - why do Ainc not allow the DE to be ported onto parallel hardware?   :-?

I personally think bhoggett has hit the nail on the head as  at the end of the day, what do Ainc have other than a trademark monopoly on the Amiga?  You have to defend you IP in situations where the business will lose money as a result. I guess it all breaks down to 2 avenues for Amiga to follow:

1. Business model - release a solo product that fulfills all the needs of the community; aggressively protect their IP and succeed with superior software.

2.  Community model - allow a group effort incorporating all the community sectors that make our current community. [open amiga anyone?]

I see merits in both models, but of course, Amiga for me means passion and not money, so I would prefer model 2!

Quote
By all means have your beliefs, but try to season them with a bit of perspective


OK. I will.  I have been waiting  almost 10 years for some sort of development on a 'new amiga' and now it seems that all I see is a torn community and wasted effort. I'm, close to giving up on this scene (as it seems so are others) so what would you prefer Mr. Teapot : A product or another Lawsuit?
\\\\.._________[Xe]54___________../
 

Offline asian1

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2003, 04:45:06 PM »
Hello
According to this website, there are also 3
different Federal Courts: District Court, Court  
of Appeal and Supreme Court.

Courts

Perhaps Genesi had won the case in District
courts, but Amiga Inc had submitted an appeal
to 9th Circuit courts. Is this the real status?

Most Federal court case use juries system.
Is AmigaDE case use this system?
Who are the juries for this case?
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: AmigaDE Case and US Courts
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2003, 05:15:19 PM »
@asian1

Quote
Perhaps Genesi had won the case in District
courts, but Amiga Inc had submitted an appeal
to 9th Circuit courts. Is this the real status?


No, Bill Buck explained that there has been no court decision. He said Amiga's legal consel dropped the Amiga countersuit against Genesi and agreed to the licensing. There has been no independent confirmation of this, or of Mr. Buck's interpretation.  The court clerk has not been made aware of any resolution in the case according to Rich Woods, and the case is still scheduled to be heard later this year.

It's not a case of one court having made a decision and an appeal having been lodged with a superior court. There simply has been no decision and no resolution to the case according to court records.
Bill Hoggett