OS 4.0 Requirements

[Piru]

@CodeSmith

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned this - the biggest memory hog on OS4 (and I bet it is on MOS too) will most probably be the native code caches for the 68K JIT translators. The bigger the caches, the more the JIT benefits.

Not on MorphOS, Trance is very modest in memory usage. Naturally it depends on the applications you run, but typically only few megabytes of memory is used. But there are no extra "caches" to hog the memory, only the required memory is used.

I'm currently running AmTelnet, FACTS, PFS3, lots of 3rd party 68k libraries and classes, IBrowse 2.3, and the Trance total memory usage is 2781KB.

1214592512 bytes available. :-)

I can't comment on Petunia memory usage.

[greenboy]

Hi Floid,

I don't have time to reply to your entire post right now {though it's a good'un : } ...But I can handle that closing query quickly -

So what does MorphOS have going for it over QNX?  :-D

Very simply, MorphOS is ready, has been ready, to run Amiga applications. There's been some gold in those hills, and the way things are looking they are not mined out ...A lot of us wanted that for QNX when the Gatemiga fiascos commenced. And it was possible technically. Some great people were involved, but things didn't work out for them or for us.

Now that's changing in a different way. It's almost like lost time is being made up for. And MorphOS is there doing what it does, while QNX does what it does. Lots of possibilites for developers, and for users. I'm curious to see what will come of having both OSes on Pegasos.

Indeed, of the three "OS" companies I have worked with in Phoenix, two have been positive experiences. Today I thank QNX the for showing me more about what it takes, and Genesi for allowing me to develop that knowledge further. (All credit to Ralph and crew for having the persistence to push forward during those Gatemiga and post-Gatemiga days when threats and innuendo insisted that he and they could not and should not).

[Atheist]

olegil wrote:
But a MINIMUM requirement to run OS4 without any JIT emulation should be somewhere around 8MB. On a 320x200 8 bit screen ;-) (most people don't actually know how much memory screens take up. Try to calculate memory for 32 bit graphics in your preferred screensize and you'll see that 32MB won't last for many applications at all... 1600x1200 takes up 7.5MB of memory)

You couldn't imagine just how much I hate windows...anyhow, the ram needed for your 1600x1200x32bit colour screen should be zero. But pc architecture DOESN'T work. How can I say this? I seem to recall that my Ti4600 video card has 128 megs of ram; period! Why doesn't that ram actually DO something?

Oh, and directx8.1 only needs 64 megs of hd space. BS!

If it wasn't RISC, we could chop it to 20 megs, and if crazy card drivers weren't involved, down 16 or 12, probably.


Cheating a bit here, I posted this on AmigaWorld.net, here goes:
----------
PC133 ECC Reg. 1 Gig. costs

$320.00 + 7% + 7.5% = $366.40 Canadian
$366.40 = 235.20 Eu = 164 UKP = $261.26 US

I paid $560 in 1990 for 8, 1 meg. 70 ns SIMMs. $70 dollars each. I would do the SAME thing again, without question. Best thing I ever did, I knew it at that time, and I know it now.

Production of PC133 is in danger of being shut down, or curtailed. Then the price will shoot up. So get it or regret it.

AmigaOne! Get AOS4.0, then SHOW OFF!!!!

P.S. You know, it's funny how just by using AOS4.0 will be showing off....i.e. the fact that it works, while windows doesn't!!!!

[mikeymike]

@ Atheist

You couldn't imagine just how much I hate windows...anyhow, the ram needed for your 1600x1200x32bit colour screen should be zero. But pc architecture DOESN'T work. How can I say this? I seem to recall that my Ti4600 video card has 128 megs of ram; period! Why doesn't that ram actually DO something?

Erm, video RAM is used for display drawing... what evidence were you relying on to say that it wasn't?

And 3D games would really suck performancewise if they couldn't use video RAM :-)

The only thing I can think of that you might be seeing is that on Windows, if you have a wallpaper, that is stored in explorer.exe's memory space.

AmigaOne! Get AOS4.0, then SHOW OFF!!!!
P.S. You know, it's funny how just by using AOS4.0 will be showing off....i.e. the fact that it works, while windows doesn't!!!!

For an atheist, you sure don't talk like one :-D

[olegil]

The only thing I can think of that you might be seeing is that on Windows, if you have a wallpaper, that is stored in explorer.exe's memory space.

And where would the backdrop for Workbench be stored, I ask you?

Seriously: On an Amiga, open up a REALLY FRELLING BIG Workbench and tell me that FAST memory doesn't drop.

Oh, and remember:
WindowsNTWorkstation
WindoesNTWorkstation

The difference between working and non-working is only one typo away :-)

[Atheist]

mikeymike wrote:
Erm, video RAM is used for display drawing... what evidence were you relying on to say that it wasn't?

My point is this, if I have 128 megs of ram on the video card, and at least 512k on my audigy card, why couldn't the OS work in 4 megs?


AmigaOne! The elegant OS!

[mikeymike]

@ olegil

I'll tell you what - you design a graphics card that runs at the same bus speed as the FSB (so it can talk at a fast enough speed to talk to main memory without a performance hit), which can be quite a few different values >FSB100, then maybe mobo manufacturers can talk about completely redesigning how 99% of computers are designed today.  Not just PCs, but the Pegasos, A1, and Mac range.  Then we'll bring in the obscene chip/fast legacy rubbish again.  It was good for once upon a time, not anymore.

And purely setting an obscenely high resolution/colour depth on Windows does not drain system memory.

[mikeymike]

My point is this, if I have 128 megs of ram on the video card, and at least 512k on my audigy card, why couldn't the OS work in 4 megs?

You want Windows to run out of video memory and sound card memory, regardless of what it is doing?

AmigaOne! The elegant OS!

AmigaOne isn't an OS.

[Atheist]

mikeymike wrote:
You want Windows to run out of video memory and sound card memory, regardless of what it is doing?

? How would it run out of video memory?

AmigaOne isn't an OS.

Oops.


AmigaOne! AOS4.0, The elegant OS!

[mikeymike]

? How would it run out of video memory?

Apologies, ambiguous wording.  I meant, Windows use video memory rather than system memory.

AOS4.0, The elegant OS!

How would you know, it's not even out yet.

[Atheist]

mikeymike wrote:
Apologies, ambiguous wording.  I meant, Windows use video memory rather than system memory.

128,000,000 bytes of ram on the card.

1600 x 1200 = 1,920,000 pixels x 4 bytes for 32 bit colour = 7,680,000 bytes

AmigaOne! AO4.0, in developement!

(That's accurate?)

[mikeymike]

128,000,000 bytes of ram on the card.
1600 x 1200 = 1,920,000 pixels x 4 bytes for 32 bit colour = 7,680,000 bytes

Yes, and the graphics card uses that memory as it was designed to.  Windows asks it to draw a screen with said specifications and details, it draws the image into graphics memory and displays it on the VDU.

AmigaOne! AO4.0, in developement!
(That's accurate?)

You spelt development wrong :-)

[Crumb]

@GreenBoy:
" I think the demo would run in considerably less though (4 meg I think, but it's been so long since I read about the QNX 4.25 demo and then tried it...)"

no it was stated that the demo-disk required at least 8Megs to run BUT it didn't run with 8MB because it needed some space to decompress its files... I say that because I tried it on a 8MB 486DX2-66 and it didn't run... later it was upgraded to 16MB and it booted without problems. 10-12MB may have been enough, thought.

BTW I don't think we can see many 133Mhz DIMM modules of less than 128MB...

And Cyberstorm PPC owners usually have 128MB +16MB on the motherboard... more than enough to run current apps comfortably...

[Crumb]

@olegil:
I noticed that in AmigaOS3.9 when the backdrop is loaded it takes up chip ram (even thought I have selected in the workbench preferences that gfx should be stored in other ram), then it is freed once the image has been loaded... maybe I have bad datatypes? I think the image should be decompressed in fastram and then copied to gfx-ram...

[Atheist]

Recap:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atheist:
My point is this, if I have 128 megs of ram on the video card, and at least 512k on my audigy card, why couldn't the OS work in 4 megs?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mikeymike:
You want Windows to run out of video memory and sound card memory, regardless of what it is doing?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atheist:
? How would it run out of video memory?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mikeymike:
Apologies, ambiguous wording. I meant, Windows use video memory rather than system memory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atheist:
128,000,000 bytes of ram on the card.

1600 x 1200 = 1,920,000 pixels x 4 bytes for 32 bit colour = 7,680,000 bytes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mikeymike:
Yes, and the graphics card uses that memory as it was designed to. Windows asks it to draw a screen with said specifications and details, it draws the image into graphics memory and displays it on the VDU.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

End recap.

What started this was

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atheist:
You couldn't imagine just how much I hate windows...anyhow, the ram needed for your 1600x1200x32bit colour screen should be zero. But pc architecture DOESN'T work. How can I say this? I seem to recall that my Ti4600 video card has 128 megs of ram; period! Why doesn't that ram actually DO something?

Oh, and directx8.1 only needs 64 megs of hd space. BS!

If it wasn't RISC, we could chop it to 20 megs, and if crazy card drivers weren't involved, down 16 or 12, probably.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, I started talking about windows, then at the point where I said RISC, I switched to AOS4.0. I was trying to say that OS4.0 may be able to work in 12 megs on a CISC CPU (16 on RISC CPU). Also, I was wondering why so much regular ram was needed anyway, when the video card has huge swaths of it available for display purposes?

Sorry for the confusion.


I advocate maxing the ram out anyway! :-D


AmigaOne! AO4.0, in development!

/*fixed*/

[Piru]

128,000,000 bytes of ram on the card.

(That's accurate?)

You have 122MB graphics card?

128MB is 134,217,728 bytes.