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Author Topic: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing  (Read 4663 times)

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #14 from previous page: July 06, 2008, 11:07:22 PM »
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Atheist wrote:
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motorollin wrote:

..... Eventually, the wealth of the developed world will become so strong, and the benefactors so selfless and generous, that we will be able to lift all of the less fortunate individuals out of poverty. War and famine will be a thing of the past, and the human race will live in peace, love and harmony.

Only Amiga Makes it Possible.

Hi motorollin,

Oh yeah, baby!

And it's almost here, the NatAmi60 is the turning point!!


Almost here? wait a few days until the iPhone is released in Canada...

Then you can catch up with the rest of us!

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I believe that there seem to be a confluence of forces making this inevitable!!!!


Well... Apple...

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Meanwhile Boot_WB suggested an almighty 8u115h1t Filter.

Oh what we wouldn't pay for that feature!!!! :-D :-D


But then we wouldn't get to enjoy your posts!!! :-(

Offline uncharted

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2008, 11:12:15 PM »
Perhaps I'm a luddite, but I miss the good old days of 'Web 1.0' (whatever that means) where things were simpler and things were not quite so easy.

Having to do everything in HTML meant that people had to put in the effort to publish to the web.  Perhaps, it is the rose tinted specs I'm wearing right now, but back in the day people seemed to take more pride in what they put on the web.  Yeah, you had the {bleep}s still, and you had geocities.  But it's so easy now for people to dump any old {bleep} on the web, that they do. As Moto said, people are filling the web with every insignificant detail, every throw-away thought and worse they're presenting it as if it is important fact.
 

Offline weirdami

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notice me!!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 01:59:10 AM »
I think fish sticks are tasty. That movie sucked. Look at my new socks!
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Offline Atheist

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 03:43:50 AM »
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bloodline wrote:
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Atheist wrote:
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Meanwhile Boot_WB suggested an almighty 8u115h1t Filter.

Oh what we wouldn't pay for that feature!!!! :-D :-D


But then we wouldn't get to enjoy your posts!!! :-(


:laughing:

Maybe, maybe I'll post again. :-)
\\"Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?\\" -- bloodline
So I guess that A500, 600, 1000, 2000, CDTV, CD32, are pure garbage then? Thanks for posting here.
 

Offline persia

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 04:22:30 AM »
Man, what is that flying camel is doing...  I can see clearly, man this is good stuff.


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline codenetfx

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 04:58:15 PM »
@uncharted:

You made some interesting points. Just the other day I was talking to a client about Semantic Webs (Web 3.0) and how they will "work" once they are ready. Once that cool technology is rolled out, we will probably have something that looks like Compuserve (as it looked in 1993): clean-shaven online service, where content is organized, easy to find and people actually know their stuff). I remember back in the day, when I wanted to talk 68K assembler all it took was to find a forum on Compuserve and we were motorollin' in no time. I learned a great deal that way.

And, it did not have pesky ads, trojans, worms and all the other crap for which I have to sacrifice CPU cycles just to stay safe. This is why we need Dual Core today: one CPU for virus/security-related defenses, and another for apps. :)))
===================================================
2x(A500+GVP Hard drive), A4000/VT, A3000/386SX, A1200/Blizzard 1230 50MHz, A2000/68040/GVP/SCSI/Toaster, A2500/GVP/SCSI, A3000/Toaster, G4 Mac Mac SE30, Thinkpads T40s/X41, Linux boxes...
 

Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2008, 05:14:05 PM »
I really think you guys should check out several services that are here today, and even with current Amiga development tools (for OS3.9 or OS 4.0) are here today. They work great from python, php, and presumably could be scripting from the Amiga Shell/AmigaDOS..  Even if you consider the lack of a good web browser..

You should check out Amazon's web services

http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=16427261

They include things like S3 Simple storage that gives you online file storage that's available 24/7..

Other services include:

Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud
Amazon SimpleDB
Amazon Simple Storage Service
Amazon Simple Queue Service

You don't have to wait until 2018, you can have these kinds of things and do them today right from the Amiga (with TCP/IP and a Network card/Stack)..

Web services are much easier than a web browser to implement and return text or XML most of the time and work like a remote procedure call.. REST protocol seems like a slam dunk and I am suprised no one has done stuff with that yet.

A lot of people forgo anything but online file storage already, I'd be suprised if the Amiga community doesn't adopt this already themselves or aren't already.

Writing an Amiga program to access a webservice should be easy even from something like AREXX (same kind of idea, AREXX ports just over a network)..  

-Don
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Offline motorollin

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2008, 06:20:16 PM »
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Hans_

Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2008, 08:02:18 PM »
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.

The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control. Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...

All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).

Hans
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2008, 08:17:16 PM »
Quote

Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.


Only if you were fool enough to not maintain backups... I can't speak for other services but the Apple system is a way of keeping all my devices synchronised... My actual data is stored on my MBP... the cloud simply maintains a copy of it that I can access and modify (which will then sync across all my devices) anywhere...

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The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control.


Don't be such a control freak! :-P Your devices still work just as they did before they were massively connected... it just that then you would have to manually keep track of your modifications and updates.

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Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...


Wow!!! don't you normally need to take medication for that degree of paranoia? ;-)

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All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).


Take your pick... use technology as you will, but if you don't want to take advantage of what it offers... then feel free to fire up that C64 and pretend the last 30 years never happened :-D

Offline Hans_

Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2008, 08:57:48 PM »
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bloodline wrote:
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Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.


Only if you were fool enough to not maintain backups... I can't speak for other services but the Apple system is a way of keeping all my devices synchronised... My actual data is store on my MBP... the cloud simply maintains a copy of it that I can access and modify (which will then sync across all my devices) anywhere...


The backup is of no use if you can't use it in other systems. Google got into a bit of an argument over this exact point at a cloud-computing gathering because their apps do lock you in to their system. Cloud-computing is much more than a distributed storage system.

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The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control.


Don't be such a control freak! :-P Your devices still work just as they did before they were massively connected... it just that then you would have to manually keep track of your modifications and updates.

If you are relying on other servers for computing, then those servers have to be functioning, and the connections to those servers as well. Your devices may still work as before, but disconnected, you won't be able to do much with them.

Having dealt with internet outages, the prospect of not being able to do my work, because I can't connect to the application server, does not appeal.

Let's say you are running a business and some nutter decides to start a DDOS attack on your management system service provider. You, and every other company relying on that service will be back to using pen and paper until the service is restored. Any data that you did not have paper backups (or PDF files of) won't  be accessible, and any changes will have to be manually sync'ed once the service provider is back up and running.

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Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...


Wow!!! don't you normally need to take medication for that degree of paranoia? ;-)

Grow up. I'm sorry, but suggesting that I need medication is uncalled for, and insulting. I've had to deal with petty behaviour from "professionals" who don't like people that I work with. The effects are nasty. Given the amount of censorship in other parts of the world, this is something worth at least considering, even if it's not going to be an issue for most people.

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All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).


Take your pick... use technology as you will, but if you don't want to take advantage of what it offers... then feel free to fire up that C64 and pretend the last 30 years never happened :-D


What advantage does running a word-processor on a distributed system have exactly? My comment wasn't about not taking advantage of new technologies, rather, it was about making things more complex than they need to be.

None of the examples that I have given would be that hard to overcome technically, but service providers will be reluctant to add the ability to transfer data to rival company's systems, or allow local servers*.

So, please tell me, what advantage does cloud computing offer over installing software locally?

Hans

* One of the advantages for cloud computing service providers is that the users don't have access to the object-code, thus making pirating/reverse-engineering harder.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2008, 09:43:55 PM »
Quote

Hans_ wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.


Only if you were fool enough to not maintain backups... I can't speak for other services but the Apple system is a way of keeping all my devices synchronised... My actual data is store on my MBP... the cloud simply maintains a copy of it that I can access and modify (which will then sync across all my devices) anywhere...


The backup is of no use if you can't use it in other systems. Google got into a bit of an argument over this exact point at a cloud-computing gathering because their apps do lock you in to their system. Cloud-computing is much more than a distributed storage system.


Not really... That's like saying the iPod is much more than a Harddrive that plays MP3s... It's not... It's just a hard drive in a pretty box.

I honestly can't think of anything that you would do in the cloud that isn't basically just copying data between devices... sure a bit of manipulation between devices is available... but the results need to be accessible or it's useless.

Oh and, I do have backups of my Data on Google... it was very easy to do!

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Quote
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The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control.


Don't be such a control freak! :-P Your devices still work just as they did before they were massively connected... it just that then you would have to manually keep track of your modifications and updates.

If you are relying on other servers for computing, then those servers have to be functioning, and the connections to those servers as well. Your devices may still work as before, but disconnected, you won't be able to do much with them.


:-? Did you never use a PDA before Blackberry and iPhone came along? You are being really weird about this... like that other chap in another thread who wouldn't watch a TV show he wanted to watch online... because he didn't trust JavaScript...


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Having dealt with internet outages, the prospect of not being able to do my work, because I can't connect to the application server, does not appeal.


Well prepare for the outages because they are going to happen... they happen all the time... If you have a local copy of the data work on that with a local application. If not then you can't, simple.

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Let's say you are running a business and some nutter decides to start a DDOS attack on your management system service provider. You, and every other company relying on that service will be back to using pen and paper until the service is restored. Any data that you did not have paper backups (or PDF files of) won't  be accessible, and any changes will have to be manually sync'ed once the service provider is back up and running.


Damn, I'm glad you don't run my IT systems!!! I guess you've never worked for any large organisations, with complex and advanced computing requirements?

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Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...


Wow!!! don't you normally need to take medication for that degree of paranoia? ;-)

Grow up. I'm sorry, but suggesting that I need medication is uncalled for, and insulting.


Ok... I was just messing around... but now I'm concerned! Listen to me carefully and slowly... They are not after you! repeat that to yourself softly and when no one is looking...

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I've had to deal with petty behaviour from "professionals" who don't like people that I work with. The effects are nasty. Given the amount of censorship in other parts of the world, this is something worth at least considering, even if it's not going to be an issue for most people.


What the hell does this have to do with my PDA syncing to my MBP?

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Quote
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All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).


Take your pick... use technology as you will, but if you don't want to take advantage of what it offers... then feel free to fire up that C64 and pretend the last 30 years never happened :-D


What advantage does running a word-processor on a distributed system have exactly?


So I can edit and manipulate a document on any device with a network connection? No worrying about which version of the program I'm using, or if I need a licence to use it on that device... Or even having to take a long install time for a a single app, if I even have the processing/memory requirements... the advantages are endless... If there were no advantages over the existing systems... no one would bother.

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My comment wasn't about not taking advantage of new technologies, rather, it was about making things more complex than they need to be.


You don't think about the long term implications of your comment. You are not seeing the system as a useful system... so therefore it's overly complex for  you... but for the task in hand it's very well designed... which is much more than some systems I can mention... like E-Mail...

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None of the examples that I have given would be that hard to overcome technically, but service providers will be reluctant to add the ability to transfer data to rival company's systems, or allow local servers*.


You don't have to... you are thinking as if we are talking about Sun's concept of thin clients for everything... that concept died a death a long time ago... We are not... you really need to see what modern technology offers.

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So, please tell me, what advantage does cloud computing offer over installing software locally?


There is no reason not to have everything local as well, I would be reluctant to store all my data on a server, unbackedup on my personal machine... but now you have the option.

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* One of the advantages for cloud computing service providers is that the users don't have access to the object-code, thus making pirating/reverse-engineering harder.


Um... Not really that useful is it?

Offline motorollin

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Re: Web 3.0 Wishlist: Amiga and Cloud Computing
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 09:58:56 PM »
Quote
Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.

Fair comment. I had the same concerns when I migrated to OS X. I wanted to be sure that once I had imported my calendar/contacts/music/whatever it wouldn't be stuck there. Fortunately Apple's software allows you to export in standard formats should you decide to move to different software.

If Apple's applications are linked to me.com (Apple's upcoming Cloud setup) then data are automatically pushed between devices you connect to your me.com account. The data are in the same format, so the same flexibility applies should you decide to export to a standard format.

I don't know how other Cloud providers handle this.

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Hans_ wrote:
The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control..

Depends on where you create the data and where you need them. If you create stuff locally and then can't access the Cloud, then clearly you can't access those data from your other Cloud-connected devices. But anything created prior to losing connection to the Cloud would be stored locally (because the other devices push it to each other's local store through the Cloud).

How important all of that is obviously depends on what you actually plan to do with the data, and how often it is likely that you will lose your connection to the Cloud.

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Hans_ wrote:
Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)..

Edit - Another good point... not sure how I feel about my data going through a server somewhere. I'll probably just use the me.com services (if at all) for calendars, contacts and my Uni files. Anything personal will be kept locally on my computer.

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Hans_ wrote:
All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).

Well, the Cloud is attempting to make it simpler to keep the same data in many places. Easier while it's working, since it does all the work for you. But I concede it would probably be a headache if it stopped working when you needed it...

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Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10