OS4 and DKB3128

[B00tDisk]

adolescent wrote:

B00tDisk wrote:
Why?  Why do you think Hyperion should've created a hacky mess of an operating system just so they could cover every weird setup out there?  

I agree.  Those people with Blizzard PPC wanting to use their SCSI should just get "normal" systems in order to be covered.   :roll:

Now you know darn well that's not what I was talking about.

[B00tDisk]

alexh wrote:
They should have created a few more HW drivers though.

No doubt, but the wailing about them not reaching across the creaking, groaning bridge of multiple hardware types lashed together in a myriad of funky and often incompatible ways is a bit much.

[alexh]

Eh??

The only reason they chose not to write drivers was that it wasn't on the Hyperion roadmap. (Certainly wasn't a technical reason for most hardware) Classic support was only supposed to be a stepping stone to the Amiga-One so why write drivers for exotic hardware they didn't own?

As for what Kin-Hell wrote about memory.. I think it's bollox. There is absolutely no reason to support motherboard SCSI in OS4!

Why not??

You need a CSPPC for OS4 on A3k/A4kT and so automatically get a much, much faster UW-SCSI3 controller! Instantly making the motherboard SCSI redundant. (If the CSPPC SCSI isn't supported under OS4, then my argument doesn't hold!)

I think the reason there is no Blizzard SCSI support is that if you remember OS4 wasn't destined for that platform until very late in the day. Laziness coupled with economics is why there are no drivers.

[Kin-Hell]

B00tDisk wrote:
No doubt, but the wailing about them not reaching across the creaking, groaning bridge of multiple hardware types lashed together in a myriad of funky and often incompatible ways is a bit much.

So you were never a traditional Amiga fan then!? The Amiga was all about "Fun Computing". We had a GUI that packed more power than any other platform of its time. Librarys, Devices, Handlers etc that other hardware/software could share. These were good days which OS4 does not encompass in the same manner.
Opinions are personal & we are all entitled to our own. If you can`t see the humour in what I wrote, I`ll stay a kid a while longer & might just enjoy life that little bit more.
Fun computing on the Amiga was really what it was all about & I feel OS4 does not encompass this same tradition. Just my opinion though! ;-)

@ alexh

It`s clever what Hyperion have done with the OS, so please don`t take me entirely the wrong way about this. It`s clever in so far as the way OS4 was originally developed for other hardware in the first place & not Commodores Chipset. At least OS3.9 still ran on the 060 with WARP etc using the PPC where it could. Mainly games of course. I really wanted to see some FAST render times in Imagine, Real 3D etc.
OS4's direction RE the hardware it ran on, probably fuelled their laziness & economics. Amigas were all about SCSI & slower devices on the SCSI III chain will be detremental to the SCSI III performance.
Such a shame. :-(

[alexh]

Kin-Hell wrote:
It`s clever in so far as the way OS4 was originally developed for other hardware in the first place & not Commodores Chipset.

I think it was the other way around. It was started on the classic using CSPPC while they waited for the Amiga-One hardware to arrive.

Kin-Hell wrote:
At least OS3.9 still ran on the 060 with WARP etc using the PPC where it could.

I think that by keeping the 060 on the bus, you effectively cripple the PPC and so OS4 switches it off.

Kin-Hell wrote:
Amigas were all about SCSI & slower devices on the SCSI III chain will be detremental to the SCSI III performance.
Such a shame. :-(

The slowest device determines the maximum bus speed?? Even if it is not in use? Bummer indeed. It means you need to use an IDE CD/DVD :-)

[Zac67]

alexh wrote:
I think it was the other way around. It was started on the classic using CSPPC while they waited for the Amiga-One hardware to arrive.

Yes, that's the way it really was.

Kin-Hell wrote:
Amigas were all about SCSI & slower devices on the SCSI III chain will be detremental to the SCSI III performance.

Actually older SCSI devices can slow UW-SCSI in so far as they transfer data slower and cause more bus load than faster devices. However, in reality this is no problem as this happens only while you're using the devices.

(More modern SCSI busses using LVD signaling can be severly slowed down (permanently) and even disabled by connected SE devices, but there are no U2W+ host adapters for any Amiga.)

Anyway, this 'problem' hardly qualifies for enforcing the development of drivers for onboard HBAs.

[Nearly-Right]

Kin-Hell - Bloody disgraceful all round.

I have to agree, there was not enough support put into the OS4 Classic for it to be released as a Commercial package.

I don't care what those at Hyperion say about if it's not on the compatibility list then it is not compatible. Useless remark.

The Acube site/compatibility list has not been updated since 1st December 2007.

Where is the support for the OS ?

Though I have just taken a look there and I see OS 4.1 being mentioned, so maybe some good news, & about time too, if it is !!

Woah, hold on it's only for the A-One, we Classic users have been left in the dirt, yet again, so no surprise there I suppose.

I see on the Acube site there is dropdown list for support for SAM440ep, CPU Module, MiniMig, and STFAX - that hasn't even been released, BUT there is no sign of any support link for Classic OS4, no link for a FAQ section about installation for OS4 Classic, and they are supposed to be the ONLY direct distributors of Classic OS4.

I have tried to get blood out of a stone via Hyperion but then you cannot get blood out of a stone, so now you know.

Hyperion seemed to have earmarked the greatest majority of their time on supporting hardware that had not been authorised by Amiga Inc. and when the court case did not get resolved as soon as they had hoped they finally had to find some cash from somewhere & so turned to the Amiga faithful for their cash. Such little time seems to have been spent in supporting the legacy hardware, which was where it all started, and those are the people who will realistically migrate to later PPC OS's, but who have now been poisoned by their unfair handling of Classic OS4 (IN-) compatibility.

I for one, having waited YEARS for support for the Blizzard PPC boards, having been assured it would be supported, well I wasn't told it would only just about be supported, & feel like I have been dumped on. I feel abandoned like so many other Blizzard users, while the Cyberstorm users have had a much better support, even for really old Zorro GFX cards.

I have a Mediator with much more modern PCI hardware, but was never told by Hyperion that that board would basically not be supported in all the years they had OS4 in development. Well they weren't really developing the A1200 or A4000 wwere they it seems, it was just an afterthought, or that is how the compatibility/support list feels to me.

I don't think the DMA problem in the Mediators is one that Hyperion could not get around, if they wanted to, but they do not want to.

I get the impression that there could be a way to get OS4 Classic to work with the type of DMA that Elbox, and maybe other hardware manufacturers of Classic Amiga boards also, if only Hyperion would OK it, and allow/make it work.

After all we are talking about a small amount of hardware for loyal Amiga users who will no doubt migrate, when/if the court matter resolves the new PPC hardware issues, but what harm can it do to support the older DMA just to get the damn hardware working under Classic OS4?

It seems Hyperion, and those other Commercial parties interested in OS4 have no real interest in supporting the only currently available Classic Amiga hardware to effectively use Classic OS4 that it was supposedly written for.

We should all have been told the Hyperion Classic OS4 roadmap properly, in good time, not 2 weeks before launch, and how it would affect a particular Amiga model, by that I mean basically the A4000 and the A1200, which are the only Amiga Classic hardware that could run OS4 as they have the PPC boards for them.

I feel we were let down badly by not being informed that the Classic hardware would be so poorly supported, in good time, and in any case the OS4 documentation was scant.

I know Hyperion are on the Amiga side, they just need to support the Classic Hardware better, because what does it matter if it does not comply with the philosophy of how a clean OS should be for what the new PPC hardware requires, just get it to work with the Classic hardware now, code it to suit the needs of the users, not their own ideal/clinically correct system.

I still have this dream about the Amiga, but at the moment it feels more like a nightmare.

[DoogUK]

They should have called it OS4 not so classic!

[alexh]

I am almost sure they never intended to release OS4 classic but with the death of Amiga-One they had to re-think. There was probably a deadline and they just had to go with what they had.

[Kin-Hell]

alexh wrote:
I am almost sure they never intended to release OS4 classic but with the death of Amiga-One they had to re-think. There was probably a deadline and they just had to go with what they had.

Yeah m8, but it just about F`kd the classic Amiga....& they wouldn`t be where they are now if it wasn`t for us Old School fux0rz!

Chicken egg thing, but It`s really nice to see there are some of us still out here. Bring it on lads....Dragster won`t mid us pimping his thread....He knows there are loads of Cold ones in the Fridge here!  :-D

[alexh]

??

[Kin-Hell]

@ alexh

No IDE here m8y. IDE has a MUCH bigger CPU hit on the Amiga than SCSI.  ;-)