NatAmi 68070 design draft

[biggun]

alexh wrote:

biggun wrote:
The ramp up cost for a Altera Hardcopy are 250,000 quit.

Which one?? $400,000 is the quoted NRE price for a Hardcopy IV.

That's the offer that we got from our Altera sales contact.

biggun wrote:
A piece price for a hardcopy ASIC of < $20 is a correct statement.

What is the MOQ (minimum order quantity) at that price?
[/quote]

Minimum quantity for was 10,000


Cheers

[bloodline]

wawrzon wrote:
@bloodline:

frankly, you actually never directly attacked the natami team,

I have nothing against what they are doing. Why would I attack them?

but you have accused the technical ideas behind the project to be a joke and insult to the name of amiga, while basing ur criticism mostly on statements made by so called "supporters".

The "supporters" seem to think that NATAMI will be the best thing since sliced silicon. That companies will be lining up to buy this design. They won't. The only people interested in this are people like me, and I want something that I can afford and will run my old software.
 

if i was a serious dev whose project is criticized like that, i would sure get nasty with u.

If you were a serious Dev, you would have a better understanding of the technical issues involved.

so called "amiga comunity" is full of infantile enthusiasts so if you regard urself as something better just do not waste ur time discussing their mistakes.

No I don't consider myself better. That is why I am astounded by the level of stupidity and lack of ability to Google demonstrated by people here...

[Atheist]

This is a ridiculously low price to walk away from to reignite the Amiga flame!

That's $250,000 + 10,000 * $20 = $450,000

One run of 10,000 ASICs is $45 per CPU. There must be 2,500 regulars if you combined all the active members from here, AmigaWorld.net and Amigans.net and a few other non-English message boards interested in such a beast, surely?.

So, if ONLY 2,500 boards were sold, the rest of the chips (3 extra per board) could be amortized across them @135 per board.

IOW, sell every MB with an additional $135 tagged in, to compensate for not being able to sell/make the remaining 7,500 MBs.

This is the contribution we could make for hopefully another run of 2,500 to be made.

[jj]

@Atheist

And you are stumping up  the half million dollars are you. I mean its penauts according to you.

And think you are missing a few parts of the cost there

[jj]

@Atheist

Are you actullay part of thsi project ?  You keep saying we !!!

[Atheist]

JJ wrote:
@Atheist

And you are stumping up  the half million dollars are you. I mean its penauts according to you.

And think you are missing a few parts of the cost there

Hi JJ,

Doh, I know it's a ~550 dollar (add $135) MB, I'm only talking about the difficulty in obtaining the one key component.

[Atheist]

JJ wrote:
@Atheist

Are you actullay part of thsi project ?  You keep saying we !!!

No, I am not a part of this project, however I will buy the NatAmi60.

I'm speaking as a member of the Amiga community.

This is the train we've been waiting to get on to, lets not miss it. (I'm talking about the future cheap motherboard.)

[bloodline]

Atheist wrote:

JJ wrote:
@Atheist

And you are stumping up  the half million dollars are you. I mean its penauts according to you.

And think you are missing a few parts of the cost there

Hi JJ,

Doh, I know it's a ~550 dollar (add $135) MB, I'm only talking about the difficulty in obtaining the one key component.

Regardless... you are asking 2500 people to put $550 into a project. That's serious investment capital... I don't have that that sort of cash that I'm prepared to throw into a project which might not actually work out... how many of those 10000 ASICs will be DOA... after assembly how many boards will be DOA... how long will the Testing and debuging phase be on the ASIC... what do we do if there is a bug in the design... as Jerri found in the C64 ASIC... throw away the first batch and do another run... we don't have that sort of money... There will never be that sort of money for such an antiquated design.

[wawrzon]

If you were a serious Dev, you would have a better understanding of the technical issues involved.

no im not a dev so i stand back on technical issues, but even as visual artist i rely on logic to the same extent as on feeling at least.

@atheist: please, thats reallly highly unrealistic, ur just confusing people. i think natami devs have already much more mature plans, as what to do with their research, so let them speak for themselves if u will.

[Atheist]

Hi bloodline,

The people like me are the guinea pigs buying a NatAmi60 for ~1200, the one with the FPGA, that is going to be, over the course of ~1 year, be tested, and tested, and tested again.

No ASIC is being made until the FPGA version, the NatAmi60, is taken around the block way more than a few times.

[Atheist]

wawrzon wrote:

@atheist: please, thats reallly highly unrealistic, ur just confusing people. i think natami devs have already much more mature plans, as what to do with their research, so let them speak for themselves if u will.

Hi wawrzon,

Mine was a possible scenario by which a relatively cheap NatAmi could be done.

The NatAmi60, which is the testing model will be expensive, and I hope they can get over 300 sold.

[bloodline]

wawrzon wrote:

If you were a serious Dev, you would have a better understanding of the technical issues involved.

no im not a dev so i stand back on technical issues, but even as visual artist i rely on logic to the same extent as on feeling at least.

My statement was not intended as an insult, but only as an observation.

@atheist: please, thats reallly highly unrealistic, ur just confusing people. i think natami devs have already much more mature plans, as what to do with their research, so let them speak for themselves if u will.

Atheist represents the extreme end of the Amiga community spectrum. If he is unaware of the technical details involved there are many many others who also do not know.

[Atheist]

Hey everybody, I'm just throwing ideas out there. The numbers aren't THAT high.... I feel that it IS possible!!!!

[bloodline]

Atheist wrote:
Hi bloodline,

The people like me are the guinea pigs buying a NatAmi60 for ~1200, the one with the FPGA, that is going to be, over the course of ~1 year, be tested, and tested, and tested again.

The NatAmi60 is a very reasonable idea, and certainly the most sensible I have seen from this project. But unfortuatelly it is slightly outside my scope of interest. Since I like it, but I am not interested in buying it (Should I be given one, I'd be very happy :-)), I have not commented upon it.

No ASIC is being made until the FPGA version, the NatAmi60, is taken around the block way more than a few times.

The ASIC design and the FPGA although related are two very different things. As I mentioned, Jerri's C64 clone worked fine, but when she got the ASICs back they had an unforseen problem... which required a rework of the mainboards... these problems can be swallowed by a big company with a couple of million to invest in a product they expect to make at least 4 times their money back with. A hobby project is better suited to FPGs where problems can more often than not be fixed in software, with the obvious disadvantage is that the PPU is higher and the chip has to run slower.

[wawrzon]

@bloodline:
as far as i understood biggun if he ever spoke of asic, then only as an option in case some bigger company had an interest to use future natami-technik in a device like sort of pda. in that case something related to amiga technik might again appear on the market. whatever consequences it might have to amiga community i dare not foresee. the asic natami computers could be probably constructed to smaller quantities in this case, so to say "by the way".

edit: the failure of similar past ideas like setup boxes based on amiga-technology would indicate that one couldnt rely much on such possibility.

@atheist:
no 2000 people are going to gather around a risky project with uncertain outcome to donate each 500-1000$. face it. even a single sponsor is more likely

[Atheist]

wawrzon wrote:

@atheist:
no 2000 people are going to gather around a risky project with uncertain outcome to donate each 500-1000$. face it. even a single sponsor is more likely

Hi wawrzon,

What if, and I say, what if theoretically:

The NatAmi60 is made, and appeared to be bug free, and IS astounding (as I know it will be), ACube said; "we'll make this if 1,000 people are wiling to prepay $700 or 1500 are willing to prepay $600 for us to make a small run of computers."

How about then? We're basically kind of limited to that at the moment.