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Author Topic: NatAmi 68070 design draft  (Read 25093 times)

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Offline AmiBoyTopic starter

NatAmi 68070 design draft
« on: June 24, 2008, 08:05:39 PM »
For anyone who is interested in the NatAmi (like me) Gunnar has released an early draft on the 68070 processor they are hoping to implement in the model after the 060 equipmed Dev Board.

I dont really undrerstand any of it but I thought some of the more technical minded people on here might want to take a look!

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=642
Escom A1200, Power Tower, OS3.9 & BB2, HD-Floppy drive, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000 16MB, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Tuner Card, 10/100MBit Ethernet card, Apollo 68060 66MHz with 64MB, 9.5Gig HD and 52xCDRom

Also one spare unworking bare A1200
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 08:09:36 PM »
Quote

AmiBoy wrote:
For anyone who is interested in the NatAmi (like me) Gunnar has released an early draft on the 68070 processor they are hoping to implement in the model after the 060 equipmed Dev Board.

I dont really undrerstand any of it but I thought some of the more technical minded people on here might want to take a look!

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=642


Hmmm, Somewhat ambitious and there seems to be a few flaws in the ideas... Not much detail about branches... does he even know modern branch prediction theory?

Offline Matt_H

Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 08:21:05 PM »
I'd suggest a different name to avoid confusion with this thing.
 

Offline Zac67

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 08:23:54 PM »
Quote
The Motorola 68060 CPU was designed that way. Its a CISC decoder in front of a RISC execution pipeline.

Err...

The '060 has no RISC core - this is garbage. RISC starts with Coldfire.

And I'd like a to see an available 5 GHz RISC CPU...

 

Offline AJCopland

Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 08:25:35 PM »
I like their enthusiasm but I much prefer the simplicity of using an existing and known working cpu like the 68060.

Still this isn't a thread about what I like :-D

So, and I've been reading Gunnars post on the Natami forum, they've decided that in the future they'd like to make a 68070. It'd be better off being called a 68080 since it sounds more like they want to implement a 68060 and then take it further but that another aside.

Perhaps a good approach to this would be to take the tg68k and try adding features such as pipelining to it's design. it's integrated with an existing platform and behaviour can be compared against an unmodifed version to illuminate compatibility issues.

Ok so it'd still be a 16bit 68k core but it'd give the designer some experience at doing the work.

Andy
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Offline AmiBoyTopic starter

Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 08:25:59 PM »
@ Matt

good Idea..........maybe they should call it the 68080!  
:-D   :-P
Escom A1200, Power Tower, OS3.9 & BB2, HD-Floppy drive, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000 16MB, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Tuner Card, 10/100MBit Ethernet card, Apollo 68060 66MHz with 64MB, 9.5Gig HD and 52xCDRom

Also one spare unworking bare A1200
 

Offline mongo

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 08:29:02 PM »
Quote

Zac67 wrote:

And I'd like a to see an available 5 GHz RISC CPU...



IBM's Power6 is available at speeds of up to 4.7 GHz.

Is that close enough?
 

Offline AJCopland

Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 08:30:58 PM »
Power6 at TheRegister - IBM Power6 at 5GHz

... now if only they'd actually ship 'em :-D
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Offline bloodline

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 08:32:10 PM »
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
Quote
The Motorola 68060 CPU was designed that way. Its a CISC decoder in front of a RISC execution pipeline.

Err...

The '060 has no RISC core - this is garbage. RISC starts with Coldfire.

And I'd like a to see an available 5 GHz RISC CPU...



Also I would note that x86 with it's limited addressing modes are easier to "decode" RISC than the 68k could ever be... the whole idea seems riddled with very immature ideas...

Offline bloodline

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 08:35:53 PM »
Quote

mongo wrote:
Quote

Zac67 wrote:

And I'd like a to see an available 5 GHz RISC CPU...



IBM's Power6 is available at speeds of up to 4.7 GHz.

Is that close enough?


Available from where? Anyway the ALU of the Penitum4 was actually "Doubled Pumped", and that small part of the CPU was actually running at twice the Main Clock speed... so that part of the chip ran past 6Ghz!!!

Offline Zac67

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 08:43:43 PM »
Yes, Motorola also left the 'classic' 68k track for the Coldfire way - they had their reasons.

Actually I miss the point of recreating a completely new (?) RISC core to have it run/emulate/whatever 68k code.

There are lots of low cost, high speed available CPUs (well, most of em x86), why not use on of them? While you're at it, add one of the off-the-shelf mobos that don't cost a fortune and are wickedly fast. Obviously you end up where Amithlon started - so I'd rather see a PCIe (or PCI if need be) board sporting an original AGA chipset or a nice vamped up Minimig/Natami/... chipset to get 100% compatibility. Most work (UAE) is already done.

The other option is porting the OS to x86 (AROS) and adding an emulation layer for compatibility (this will hopefully been done soon).

I really appreciate the effort of these guys, but I'm afraid they're running in the wrong direction...
 

Offline Nostalgiac

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 08:51:18 PM »
um... not to spoil the fun, but how about a (lets call it) 68k2duo, consisting of an Intel Core2Duo at 2.6Ghz with a 68k emulator ?

not !! joking.... stick uae (or winuae) into a usb stick. add mainstream intel board/cpu ....

as I said before.. I enjoy my A2000/060 as it is fun and makes me young again, but come on people, unless you make a 'new' Amiga OS run on x86 forget it ! (just finish aros and then add some 1000 features it is currently lacking... ok ?)

ta
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Offline AJCopland

Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 09:02:43 PM »
Well because the two aren't equivalent.

#1 is taking a 68k CISC instruction which can (but doesn't have to) involve several steps to accomplish and breaks it down into those discrete steps. Those are then fed through a RISC core which has been specifically designed to handle the aforementioned discretised 68k instructions.

PROs:
Its how modern x86 cores work.
You can apply lots of fancy things to that simple RISC68k core at it's heart.
To the outside world it looks _exactly_ like a really flipping quick 68k cpu complete with addressing, instruction, bus design. The whole lot, it could be a drop in replacement for a real 68k chip
CONs: hard to do, CISC->RISC decoder takes up transistors and space, decoder extends pipeline causing branch prediction penalties to increase etc etc etc

#2 is completely different. An x86 is just a completely alien device, it has a different endianess, it's buses are different so the way it communicates is different. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Not only that but the instructions that it actually processes are different so it can't even take the 68k instruction and do anything with them. x86 emulators work because they pretend to be the entire machine including the ram where the executable resides.
Attempting to attach an x86 cpu onto a 68k bus is like trying to get a tortoise to go faster by strapping an angry wolverine to it :lol:
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Offline alexh

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 09:03:07 PM »
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
Quote
The Motorola 68060 CPU was designed that way. Its a CISC decoder in front of a RISC execution pipeline.

Err...

The '060 has no RISC core - this is garbage. RISC starts with Coldfire.

He's trying to say that it is a microcoded processor. That is each CISC instruction is in fact a mini program running on a much simpler faster core.

I tried to give some positive feedback, but it is just showing the gulf between his ambitions and his capabilities.
 

Offline KThunder

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Re: NatAmi 68070 design draft
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2008, 09:04:36 PM »
put uae os3.1 rom etc into a pc bios :-D
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)