Amiga Vs Neo-Geo (scaling and rotation)

[Psy]

I was wondering which system had the more powerful video chip the Neo-Geo or the Amiga, I heard the Amiga does its scaling and rotation in software instead of in hardware like the Neo-Geo if this is true was Commodore planning on giving the Amiga hardware scaling and rotation?

[xeron]

The Amiga chipset doesn't have specific rotation or scaling, although its hardware can be made to assist in these functions (e.g. Brian the Lion title sequence).

With faster CPU cards (68060 etc.), its faster to do it in pure software anyway.

I'd estimate that the Neo-Geo is more powerful than AGA if it has hardware scaling and rotation.

[keropi]

I think neogeo is more powerfull... it is custom made to play just games... look at any metal-slug game, there is much going on, I cannot remember any amiga game with the same gfx/sprites/animation
they are just different things for different purposes

[Everblue]

I have both. Neo Geo games look way nicer and cooler.

Sorry :/

[cantido]

Neogeo carts are nice because you can map ~300megabits of data directly into the address space of the graphics system... so you can afford to have lots and lots of preprocessed data instead of having to create it on the fly.

Metal Slug n does look nice,... bit it slows down a lot once there are a few sprites on the screen (on real hardware).

[Psy]

So was Commodore planning on hardware based scaling and rotation?

The SNES had hardware scaling and rotation (what Nintendo called Mode 7, yet as the name suggests the SNES only could do it in one graphical mode), the SegaCD had it too but was a tad clunky (look at the special stage of SonicCD).

[Piru]

So was Commodore planning on hardware based scaling and rotation?

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigaaaa.html

No mention of those two, but maybe you could bug Dave Haynie? (I wonder why that matters anyway though).

[Speelgoedmannetje]

cantido wrote:
Neogeo carts are nice because you can map ~300megabits of data directly into the address space of the graphics system... so you can afford to have lots and lots of preprocessed data instead of having to create it on the fly.

Metal Slug n does look nice,... bit it slows down a lot once there are a few sprites on the screen (on real hardware).

I wonder how much the Amiga could take when using a cartridge (in the sideslot, maybe?)
There sure is a hell of a lot being done already, if we look at Agony, Elfmania and Lionheart....

[SamuraiCrow]

The address space devoted to the PCMCIA slot on the A1200 is about 4 megabytes, therefore the maximum addressable ROM cartridge that could be used on an A1200 is 4 megibytes x 8 bits per byte=32 megabits.

Also, scaling, rotation, and alpha blending are OpenGL functions that will be added to the SuperAGA chipset in the Natami when it comes out.

[cantido]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
cartridge (in the sideslot, maybe?)

The neogeo has separate buses for graphics and the 68k cpu... if you look at a neogeo cart there are two boards; The top prog board is wired to the 68k, the other is wired to the graphics system with separate data and address lines.

I forget where the z80 gets the audio from but I think it's a separate bus again.

So you have the ability to have a program that is pretty big mapped into the 68k's address space and then the graphics chipset has a big lump of data mapped into it's own. The 68k program tells the graphics chipset what to do but never gets involved in shifting that data around or processing it.
That basically sums up the neogeo's main advantages; Big roms and parallel-ness.

The neogeo's chipset has to do rotation etc because it's not efficient to pass data to the 68k to process and back again. Note the neogeo has very little work ram.


In the Amiga the custom chips are mapped into the address space of the 68k and the custom chips fetch data from the shared chip ram. For a cartridge to be of any advantage you would need to be able to map it into the address space both the cpu and custom chips can address (8Mb max?), so where chipram is.. but it would still be a contended resource unless the 68k's program is in fastram...

[bloodline]

Not really a fair comparison, the NeoGeo was developed 5 years after the Amiga, and lets not forget that Commodore didn't bother to develop the hardware (ECS and AGA were nothing more than bug fixes really... if we are honest..).

[Zac67]

Even though the Amiga chipsets have no real hardware support for rotating BOBs, you can trick the Blitter's line function into doing exactly that:
- calculate the start and end coordinates for the BOBs first scanline
- set the BOB's graphic data as line pattern(!) and draw a line from start to end coordinate
- repeat with 2nd line, and so on
- coordinate offsets can be precalculated for various rotation angles

Probably not very fast on a fast system (wastes lots of chipset bandwidth), but a better-than-software solution on basic 68000 systems.

:-)

[Psy]

bloodline wrote:
Not really a fair comparison, the NeoGeo was developed 5 years after the Amiga, and lets not forget that Commodore didn't bother to develop the hardware (ECS and AGA were nothing more than bug fixes really... if we are honest..).

The AGA was a bit more then a bug fix but anyway back the Amiga ECS chipset can kinda hold it own against Sega's System 16 arcade board (games like Outrun and Space Harrier were not on the System 16 boards but on dual 68000 boards were one 68000 did the scaling and rotation) so one would assume the Amiga in the 90's would be still be able to hold its own against arcade boards of the time as game consoles of the time was narrowing the gap.

[cantido]

Psy wrote:
arcade boards of the time as game consoles of the time was narrowing the gap.

Consoles and arcade platforms have always been closely related since consoles came about. The consoles usually being a slightly less powerful version of the arcade platform.

The Amiga is a multimedia computer which can do games but isn't limited to just that and that is why the designs differ.
The Amiga also cost a fraction of what a MVS board + carts would have set you back when they were released.

[Psy]

cantido wrote:
Consoles and arcade platforms have always been closely related since consoles came about. The consoles usually being a slightly less powerful version of the arcade platform.

Always? slightly?

The Sega Master System is no where near as powerful as Sega's System 16 arcade board.  

The Amiga is a multimedia computer which can do games but isn't limited to just that and that is why the designs differ.

The Amiga is also a game console or did you forget about the CD32?

Also Commodore lasted for 4 years after the release of the Neo Geo, it says something if Amiga in 4 year couldn't at least catch up to the Neo Geo.

The Amiga also cost a fraction of what a MVS board + carts would have set you back when they were released.

Not if you are talking the high end Amiga models to the AES home console