Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: SAM440 EP Flex  (Read 6344 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline takemehomegrandma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2990
    • Show only replies by takemehomegrandma
Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 03, 2008, 11:54:21 AM »
@Hans

Quote
It looks like they're managing to do what Eyetech tried but failed to do


I don't read any signs of *success* out of the publicly available info, but at least it looks like they are *trying*, which is always a good sign to see at fresh entrepreneurs! :-)

Quote
their primary business is with industrial customers, so they don't rely on Amiga related sales for survival.


That leads to the follow up question whether there really are any of these mysterious and rather vague "industrial customers"? In true volume, enough to "rely on for survival"? And why they would buy this product rather than something else?

I must say I think this product is a bit better positioned than the previous one (which to a greater degree than this one was a full *desktop* when it came to on board features, with a high price as a result, albeit *lacking* the desktop performance).

GFX is now optional which I think is a good thing (especially if your customers are primarily "industrial"), while the motherboard is physically bigger and less complex (should have fewer layers, right?), meaning the base configuration should be *a lot* cheaper. At the same time it seems to be more flexible/expandable, which should increase the amount of possible "industrial customers".

However I still strongly question the FPGA. Why is it still there? I wonder if that has *ever* been used by *a single one* of acube's customers? And for what, exactly? I'm pretty convinced that it only adds cost and it won't ever be used by 99%+ of the customers, it being there may even prevent sales (due to the higher cost), so I think they should have made the FPGA *optional* by putting it on a PCI card (especially since the motherboard now has more than one slot) or giving the customers a possibility to simply "opt out" on it altogether like you can with the ZigBee module.

I also think they should have used a different CPU! I can't understand why they are so focused on that poor, old AMCC CPU?

If low power, low performance CPU's are in acube's focus (which seems to be the case), then my favorite would be the Freescale MPC8377E. That would bring about the same performance, while bringing dual Gigabit Ethernets instead of the current 10/100 ones, it would bring PCI-Express (2 x1 or 1 x2, I would have gone for 2 x1) on top of the 32 bit 66MHz "standard" PCI, *eliminating* the need for the PCI bridge (thus reducing board complexity and overall BOM cost even more), *and* it would bring 2x SATA 2.0 controllers, *eliminating* the need for an external controller chip for this (thus reducing board complexity and overall BOM cost even more)! Cheaper, simpler, better connectivity and expandability!

Or the (for *many* reasons) *very* interesting MPC5121e, which is a multicore SoC CPU that includes a 400MHz e300 controller, a GFX controller (up to 1280x720), a 3D GPU controller to go with that, and a 200 MHz AXE controller, which is a fully programmable 32-bit RISC core for real-time acceleration tasks (for example audio). It has USB2 and one 10/100 Ethernet controller. It has one PATA and one SATA. IMHO, it's a marvelous little thing, a one-chip solution with a 32-bit PCI interface for further feature expansions!

If even more power would be requested, then I would have suggested the Freescale MPC8544E CPU instead. It's based on a full e500 core (the sequal to the "G3", and it's much more powerful than both the e300 and AMCC440) at up to 1.067GHz. It would bring a lot more computing power and ahelluvalot better expandability through PCI-Express, although it would require an external disc controller chip, USB controller, etc, or perhaps preferably a *southbridge* with a PCI-Express interface instead.

Or why not an *even more* powerful and expandable e500 CPU, like the MPC8548E? This one coupled with a (for instance) AMD SB750 southbridge would give a two-chip(!) motherboard, offering traditional desktop specs:
- One 1.5GHz(!) e500 core, with 512KB L2-cache
- One PCI-Express x16 slot (with 8 lanes actually wired) for *modern* graphics cards
- Two 32-bit PCI slots
- Four(!) Gigabit Ethernets directly from the CPU chip
- Six(!) SATA 3.0 Gbit/s, with eSATA and RAID 0, 1, 5(!), 0+1
- Twelve(!) USB 2.0 ports, and 2x USB 1.1
- HD Audio
- DASH 1.0 support

Isn't this the wet dream of all "NG Amigans"?

No? It doesn't have Altivec you say?

Hmm, then simply replace the e500 CPU's above with a single core MPC8641 (or the upcoming low power, low cost MPC8640) and you will have pretty much the same specs but with an e600 core instead! Or perhaps the MPC8610 which is using the very latest e600 @ 1.33GHz and fast controllers such as DDR2/1066 and a very capable GFX controller on the chip, which will reduce the total cost of a system where GFX is needed!

(Really performance-savvy *industrial* customers (or anyone using an OS not bound to be single core only) might be interested in the dual core versions of the 8641D/8640D CPU's, or the dual core e500 CPU MPC8572E instead!)

Quote
Where does this leave us? Exactly where we were before. As long as they don't have a license for OS4, they don't have a product that I'm interested in.


Had they got a MorphOS license, then at least I *might* have been interested! :-)

Quote
To be honest, I was more interested in their Moana project than SAM.


OS4 for second hand Mac's won't happen any more than OS4 for SAM will.

And it won't happen for a MPC8610+SB750 machine either, but surely you agree that this would have been the most interesting option of them all? ;-)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2990
    • Show only replies by takemehomegrandma
Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2008, 11:56:02 AM »
Quote

Everblue wrote:
Oh....

Oops  :-D


But wait - I do have a VAT number.



Then you should of course deduct the VAT from the competition as well in your comparisons!  ;-)

MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2990
    • Show only replies by takemehomegrandma
Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2008, 12:08:22 PM »
@Rob

Interesting picture of a PCI -> AGP adapter there!

While this one makes it possible to use AGP cards in normal cases, you seems to be bound to low profile cards, right?

If GFX indeed will be the main purpose of the first PCI slot of the Flex-SAM, then perhaps they should have put an AGP slot there from the start?

Maybe this will change before production?
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline EverblueTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2004
  • Posts: 584
    • Show only replies by Everblue
Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2008, 01:15:11 PM »
Quote

takemehomegrandma wrote:
Quote

Everblue wrote:
Oh....

Oops  :-D


But wait - I do have a VAT number.



Then you should of course deduct the VAT from the competition as well in your comparisons!  ;-)



Damn, I've been pwn3d, again :(




 :-D
 

Offline Hans_

Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2008, 02:48:38 PM »
Quote

takemehomegrandma wrote:
@Hans

Quote
It looks like they're managing to do what Eyetech tried but failed to do


I don't read any signs of *success* out of the publicly available info, but at least it looks like they are *trying*, which is always a good sign to see at fresh entrepreneurs! :-)

Well, there are no solid indicators of success, but the Zigbee module and form-factor change suggests that some customers have had their input. Zigbee is a bit of an odd thing to put in; I hadn't even thought of that. However, I can see how its useful.

This is, IMHO, further than Eyetech got. I don't recall seeing any changes to their board designs to satisfy industrial needs.

Quote

Quote
their primary business is with industrial customers, so they don't rely on Amiga related sales for survival.


That leads to the follow up question whether there really are any of these mysterious and rather vague "industrial customers"? In true volume, enough to "rely on for survival"? And why they would buy this product rather than something else?


If the specifications match what the control equipment needs, it would be a reason to buy this over something else.  

Quote

However I still strongly question the FPGA. Why is it still there? I wonder if that has *ever* been used by *a single one* of acube's customers? And for what, exactly?

Your guess is as good as mine. I see it as an easy way to put a data bridge in to existing equipment.  

Quote
No? It doesn't have Altivec you say?

I wish that they would stop making non-altivec PowerPC chips. It would be nice if having an SIMD unit could be assumed to be the minimum spec.

Hans
Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work
 

Offline itix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2380
    • Show only replies by itix
Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2008, 03:03:58 PM »
Quote

I wish that they would stop making non-altivec PowerPC chips. It would be nice if having an SIMD unit could be assumed to be the minimum spec.


Altivec is completely useless with an ancient 60x bus.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline EverblueTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2004
  • Posts: 584
    • Show only replies by Everblue
Re: SAM440 EP Flex
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2008, 03:59:12 PM »
I know why they put FPGA .....

Not only we get OS4, but we can also get minimig on the same board :D



 :-D