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Author Topic: The Great Capacity Swindle  (Read 7963 times)

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Offline pyrre

Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2008, 06:10:56 PM »
@jorkany
Quote

Quote:

    Yes they do. but when calculating anything above 1KB OS's multiply by 1000 making 1GB 102400Bytes instead of 1047576Bytes.


Wrong.

What is correct then?


Quote

Quote:

    Well i disagree... the SI standards are made to differ in terms. KB is Kilo Byte and can be interped as 1000 Bytes.


A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, regardless of any effort by marketing boards to redefine it.

Oh really...
one byte is, one... one kilo is one thousand (1000).
1 byte multiplied by 1000 is still one thousand...
K=1000
B=Byte
there is nothing that say it IS calculated binary or decimal!
That is why KiB or KibiB (kilo binary byte) were invented...
It confused some people...
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Offline monami

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2008, 07:56:07 PM »
"I have just bought a 320Gig HD to put inside my MBP..."

i was thinking of getting one of them mbp's till i saw the price. when did you buy? how much did you pay? :-o
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Offline pyrre

Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2008, 08:09:26 PM »
@ monami

MBP?
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2008, 08:32:10 PM »
MacBook Pro.

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Daedalus

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2008, 09:06:10 PM »
Quote

HopperJF wrote:
The Amiga was not whiter than white either, with its standard 880k disks only usually containing 837k of space.


Actually, the Amiga could access 879KB with FFS. 837 was the capacity with OFS. Bear in mind also that those floppy disks actually have a capacity of 1MB, and HD floppies have a 2MB capacity unformatted. PCs could use 720KB or 1.44MB of the HD types, Amigas could use 880Kb or 1.76MB. After that you have the overheads of disk.info files, volume information and other filesystem stuff taking up another KB or two...

Quote

Being the modest honest guy I am, when people ask me the capacity of the drive, I will say 150Gb. It's a shame manufacturers can't apply the same honesty.


I dunno, basically this has always been the case, it's only more obvious recently with massive disc capacity widening the gulf between base 2 and base 10, and in fairness I've always seen a remark printed on hard drive documentation to the effect of 1Gb=1,000,000,000 bytes. It's just a convention, the same way that the kW output of your car, measured at the engine, is much less by the time the power reaches the wheels due to losses in the transmission. Once it's quoted as flywheel power, it's really up to the consumer to know the difference. It's not nice, I agree, but I don't see the problem with manufacturers bending stats to sell products once they follow a convention that standardizes it.
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Offline HopperJFTopic starter

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2008, 10:16:20 PM »
Quote

Daedalus wrote:

Actually, the Amiga could access 879KB with FFS. 837 was the capacity with OFS. Bear in mind also that those floppy disks actually have a capacity of 1MB, and HD floppies have a 2MB capacity unformatted. PCs could use 720KB or 1.44MB of the HD types, Amigas could use 880Kb or 1.76MB. After that you have the overheads of disk.info files, volume information and other filesystem stuff taking up another KB or two...


You are indeed correct, it has been such a long time now that I used an Amiga properly yet Amiga.org is one of my most visited websites  :crazy:
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Offline pyrre

Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2008, 03:18:37 AM »
I remember formatting the amiga disks in a special matter it would give capacity of 1MB...
I don't remember what i used to format the disks in that matter though....
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2008, 06:54:19 AM »
"Creative Sued for Base-10 Capacities On HDD MP3 Players"
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/02/0128239
 

Offline zipper

Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2008, 01:19:56 PM »
Quote
I remember formatting the amiga disks in a special matter it would give capacity of 1MB...
I don't remember what i used to format the disks in that matter though....

diskspare.device, upto 984 kB, is one contender.
 

Offline TheMud

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2008, 03:44:36 PM »
I just got my Externalt 160 GB HDD delivered today - My iMac says it only has 149 GB :-S ... Sooo... Good for me that I read this thread.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2008, 03:53:06 PM »
Quote

zipper wrote:
Quote
I remember formatting the amiga disks in a special matter it would give capacity of 1MB...
I don't remember what i used to format the disks in that matter though....

diskspare.device, upto 984 kB, is one contender.


If you rewrote the trackdisk.device to use 8B/10B encoding instead of MFM... then you could proably incraese a standard floppy capacity to 1.4Megs...

Offline mike-

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2008, 03:54:27 PM »
Its all bit's and byte's
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Offline Zac67

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2008, 05:42:04 PM »
The only reason to use binary kilos, megas ,... vs decimal ones is that it does make sense in some areas: chips (RAM, ROM) are rectangular in shape and their column and row sizes are powers of 2, so total size (=area) is also a power of 2 - using 1024 based prefixes makes sense since a chip is exactly e.g. 16 M(i)b in size.

In other contexts those odd prefixes make no sense at all (telecommunications, mass storage) as all sizes/speeds are arbitrary and have no 'natural' boundaries. Here you should definitely use decimal SI prefixes. All those arguing against this should think a moment about what makes more sense to use as standard - a 'traditional' feeling shouldn't be the only reason.

Just my .02.
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2008, 07:39:06 PM »
bottom line:

Everybody, except for hard drive manufacturers, use base 2 to indicate capacity.
 

Offline KThunder

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2008, 08:44:48 PM »
base2 is used for memory since that is the way that the memory is actually addressed.

decimal is used for the hard drives because (with chs or lba, etc.) that is how bytes are actually addressed on the disk.

what the os actually does with the disk and allows for free space is beyond the control of the drive producer. the best they can do is give the full unformatted capacity.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
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Offline Zac67

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Re: The Great Capacity Swindle
« Reply #44 from previous page: May 02, 2008, 09:25:13 PM »
Quote
koaftder wrote:
Everybody, except for hard drive manufacturers, use base 2 to indicate capacity.


No - everybody, except for memory manufacturers, uses base 10 to indicate capacity.