Should we really crack IBrowse 2.4???

[takemehomegrandma]

Interesting statement there.  I think we're just in semantics now..

Could be. Or perhaps rather different views on definitions of the concepts "emulation" vs "translation"?

Are all of the 68k opcodes supported on the PPC?

:confused:

Of course not. And there is no need for that...

If not, what does the OS do when an app issues a command using an opcode for a 68k CPU that isn't supported on the PPC?

AFAIK no 68k opcodes is ever being executed. If that would have been the case, it would indeed have been through emulation, that would be the only way; by emulating the 68k CPU. Which AFAIK isn't what MorphOS is doing at all.

If it translates it, even on the fly, then (IMHO) it's emulating the 68k CPU from the programs perspective.

Programs (or "opcode streams" if you prefer) are de-facto rewritten, either dynamically while running, or before being started, through JIT. If a 68k Amiga program would ask which "68k CPU" it's running on, I'm sure it would be presented as 68060 (although in practice there is a mixture of numerous instruction sets), just like Itix said.

Two funny things about this though:

• There is no 68k CPU available in a MorphOS system, not even "virtual" (I don't share Itix definition there at all, my view of emulated/"virtual CPU" is in post #230, and had it been a "virtual 68k CPU" in the system in addition to the physical PPC CPU, it would mean that in the manner/context Amiga 68k apps is being executed on MorphOS, we would have a de-facto mutli-CPU system (which isn't really possible in an Amiga context, unless done in a PowerUP or AMP kind of way). And it's not like that on MorphOS, where all resources are shared, the sheduler is the same, etc. But maybe it's a matter of semantics as you said...? )
   
  
• The code actually doing the probing, will (at the moment it is being executed by the PPC CPU) be all PPC code. Which is kind of ironic, isn't it? It's being PPC without being "aware" of it (or indeed needing to care about it). Reconstructed. Native. And *that* is "the programs perspective"!
  

I love emulation.  I love virtual machines.

Well, have fun with UAE then. On MorphOS the Amiga 68k apps are being run natively on the OS (as PPC code), which in turn runs fully native on the hardware. No virtual machine. No "emulation layer". No 68k CPU in the system, neither physical nor virtual.

It sounds like MorphOS is doing "emulation right" in my opinion.
It's using it only when it needs to.

Exactly, it has UAE as an option to emulate a 68k Amiga!

:p

[Duce]

Why do so many legacy related threads get jacked by NG guys pounding their personal pulpits, lol.

Cracks me up to see how rabidly threads get derailed.  I've even got TMHG on my blocklist and the thread is a complete offtrack toilet now, lol.

[takemehomegrandma]

@Topic

Valid key-files for IBrowse is obviously out in the wild. As I have said before, I can't personally see any moral obstacles for using them, as things are now.

You want web browsing to "continue"(?!) on classic Amigas, then:

1) Check out the possibilities to purchase the sources of IBrowse.
2) Check out the possibilities to purchase the sources of Voyager. As Itix said, it's not at all unstable, I used Voyager back on MorphOS 1.4, and its stability is definitely on par with IBrowse.

A community bounty ("NOOO, NOT AGAIN!!!!") might be an option, but IMHO, chances are very big that both IP holders will either:

1) Ignore any requests.
2) Greatly overestimate the real life value of the code today (like Magellan2 for example)

But why not try?

However, I think it's pretty safe to claim that neither of these would ever come very far (if anywhere at all) from where it is today. That is: Nowhere close to where Odyssey (for instance) is. They would both be stuck in past standards and never become really useful for much more than browsing Aminet and other Amiga-specific sites that is specially made for "smooth-talking" these kind of incapable browsers. My sentiments about the classic hardware on which they will run on remains: It can never be enough for modern standars. So why bother? Really?

Use the current IBrowse/Voyager/Aweb for what you can, if you want to. Don't expect any of them to become anything more, especially not for classic Amigas.

It's "teh true"!

[takemehomegrandma]

Why do so many legacy related threads get jacked by NG guys pounding their personal pulpits, lol.

Cracks me up to see how rabidly threads get derailed.

But FFS, this thread is more than FOUR YEARS OLD, its main question has been answered *a few times per year* since then. :lol: "Legacy thread derailed" -- Are you kidding me?

:lol:

(Duce, you seem to only show up to complain *about* discussions. Is that really all you can do? Meta discussions about what you think should be discussed? BTW, in another recent thread, weren't you "migrating" to AW.net?)

[matthey]

FPU instructions can generate slightly different results due to differences in 68k and PPC FPU

Is the same thing true with WinUAE, UAE, etc?

I am wondering how careful I must be when using floats.

Most 68k FPU "emulations" and probably even new 68k fpga/ASIC FPU's will use a 64 bit double (.D) float instead of the 80 bit FPU register/96 bit load and save extended (.X) format. The 68k FPU was an improvement of the x86 FPU which also used a higher precision than double float extended format. Almost no other modern mainstream CPU supports more than double float for speed. The extended precision bits beyond a double (and some rounding bits) are left off in the register while extended precision format is supported for immediates and an . It's usually not a problem unless assumptions are made about the least significant bits in a floating point register which isn't a good idea anyway. It's best to avoid extended precision immediates (trapped on 68060) and extended precision format for loading/saving except for FMOVEM.X to load/save registers. In general:

1) extended precision in a register is ok and means modify the whole register
2) extended precision immediates and format for an mean let's be slow and we are going to lose any extra precision past a double float anyway .

[danbeaver]

This thread was about good software that can't be used fully because it needs a key file;  good software that would still generate a profit; good software that has been abandoned.  The discussion should deal with the implications of either "cracking" the key file or just openly listing the source of a valid key file.

It was not a thread on emulators.

It was not a thread on "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" of Amiga browsers.  Although that is nearer than discussing FPU's.  Maybe I should start a new new thread on the Browser Preferences.

[chris]

encouraging to hear. he might actually have had some point..

Regardless of personal opinions, if your software doesn't work correctly on a newer official version of the OS which it was designed for, it's highly likely that the software has a problem which simply was not evident before.  Dismissing it out-of-hand just because a bug does not manifest itself on an older version or derivative is (a) not good programming practice and (b) not going to encourage customers to buy your software in the future.

[wawrzon]

@chris: or perhaps he just wanted to keep his support efforts down, not much else than telling people bugs have to be replicated with clean os4 install. but i was joking.

[wawrzon]

@matthey:
about aweb: it will not build on crosscompiler due to those 68k tools that do not execute there. but it builds under my cubicide (winuae) im just completing headers..

check here:

http://www.favrin.net/txt/articoli/vari/awebapl_compile_faq.txt

titlebar headers seems to be a problem yet, classact is supposed to be a part of 3.9 ndk, but i cant find those headers there. there is os depot archive that contains it, but i suppose it isnt appriopriate for 68, so seems broadblues has broken 68k compatibility introducing os4 reaction classes to aweb. how convinient...

and also miamissl is missing.

MiamiSSL SDK can't be found on the web. It has to be
requested from the author. Since Holger Kruse has been
unreachable for months the only two options seems to be to
drop the support for MiamiSSL (see section 12) or to build a
dummy include file based on the source code's references of
the library. Juergen Lachmann followed this way and he
managed to compile AWeb and browse some SSL sites with
MiamiSSL.

i could ask jürgen, have been in contact with him because of scalos.

edit: damn, id love to have a more versatile shell on cubic than tcsh, also it is damn slow to build there.

[desiv]

Could be. Or perhaps rather different views on definitions of the concepts "emulation" vs "translation"?

er..
That IS semantics..  ;-)

Don't worry tho.
Based on what you've said about programs written for 68k Amigas running on MorphOS, I agree that it's emulation.
Thanx!

desiv

[chris]

@chris: or perhaps he just wanted to keep his support efforts down, not much else than telling people bugs have to be replicated with clean os4 install. but i was joking.

No, I think it was a genuine hatred of anything post-3.1 which wasn't MorphOS.

FWIW the bug still exists when I run MD2 on OS4.1, but it's an unimportant feature I wouldn't use anyway.

[wawrzon]

@chris:
why, then we could have a good chance. this is not about os4, as os4 doesnt need voyager anyway. this is all about genuine amiga, even if it means up to 3.1 which is fine with me.

[chris]

@chris:
why, then we could have a good chance. this is not about os4, as os4 doesnt need voyager anyway. this is all about genuine amiga, even if it means up to 3.1 which is fine with me.

Good point.

[a-pex]

PHP 5.4.x is coming up and most of the older used community software like VBulletin 3 will be incompatible. This mean we have also to drop iBrowse support, no more need for legal keyfiles.

But it would be nice to have a browser like NETSURF also for 68k/AGA, to visit some pages, like before with iBrowse. I know there is a NETSURF version for 68k, but it is not supporting native chipset, it is SDL based and slow. I am talking about a highly optimized release using native GUI.

If someone is willing to do something in this direction, the a1k Community would collect money and pay for this, like we tried it in the past for iBrowse! So this is the chance to earn some money and with the help from other communities I think it should be possible to gain a good loan for the programmer.

[gigogne]

Anyone knows if NovaCoder is still working on Netsurf AGA port ?
 
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=66229

[apj]

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=862784&postcount=25