Possible Cheap Scandoubler/FlickerFixer!

[mfletcher]

SUCCESS!

Brought my A1200 home tonight and plugged it into my Samsung SyncMaster 225MW Monitor, using a KWorld Blazing Orange TVBox 1920x1200.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...607&CatId=1427

Works really well as a scandoubler/flickerfixer... Unfortunately I was running composite to the TVBox so the picture isnt the best. That and my shoddy camerawork with an iPhone  I've uploaded some sample pics to my website here:

http://www.markfletcher.org/amiga/

I'm going to keep experimenting with other programs to see how well they work, but so far Ive tested

Extreme Violence
Pong
World of Commodore 92 Demo
Naughty Ones AGA
Poliezai demo AGA.

I've only just discovered that it also accepts VGA as an input! Unfortunately AmigaKit is on holiday, so it looks like its going to be a while until I get a VGA adapter to try out the VGA input.

I'll let you know how I get on!

Mark

[ami_junki]

Wow that looks pretty cool, I might have to pick one up myself.  Let us know how it goes with the VGA adapter.

[Gwion]

LUSH!

[da9000]

Your first linky ain't working.

But more importantly, using the composite input for scan-doubling is the method of the lowest quality (look at that horrid ghosting).

This box would be valuable if it could or would scan-double the VGA inputs, which I highly doubt it does (almost ALL boxes scan-double composite/SVHS inputs, but not all scan-double RGB inputs, such as VGA inputs). I hope am wrong about this box and would be curious to hear your feedback.

Good luck.

[alexh]

http://static.tigerdirect.com/pdf/Kworld_KW-SA230WP_UserManual.pdf

It's only got composite / svideo input. This is a crap scandoubler for an Amiga.

It does have a 50Hz to 60Hz scan rate converter, which means PAL demo's will run on LCD panels that cannot display 50Hz (at the sacrifice of smooth scrolling)

VGA input is just passthrough.

[mfletcher]

AlexH,

Then what would *YOU* suggest as an alternative?

The only alternatives I can see are:
1) Buy an expensive scandoubler / flickerfixer on Ebay for anywhere between $400 to $900. Way too expensive!
2) Buy a Commodore monitor. But what happens when it breaks? Back to square one!
3) Nothing. Im screwed.

Im looking for a solution that is cheap and easy to source. The KWorld TV Box might not be the best scandoubler / flickerfixer on the market, but it sure as hell makes more sense to spend money on it, instead of paying for some overpriced effort on Ebay. If it breaks, well Kworld will still be in business that I can source a replacement.

So Alex, illuminate me with your wisdom, what would you suggest?

[Damion]

There's Roy's unit, though you might have to wait a few months until he has one ready for you. Much better than EBay prices.

Another option would be to source an RGB -> component converter, then you should be able to use any TV with component inputs (with varying results).

--edit-- Nasty is right though, use whatever is acceptable to you and enjoy!


 

[nasty]

@ mfletcher

It does'nt matter what AlexH or anyone else has to say about it! if your happy with the end result of your new toy then thats all that matters :-).

As for other options if you really need them:
1) you will find a list of other boxes in topics on A.org
2) Place a wanted advert on A.org for a scandoubler (alot of amiga owners are selling there unused hardware and not for stupid ebay prices)

[mfletcher]

Nasty,

Actually Im quite happy with the results. :-)

Sure workbench looks a bit fuzzy, but games, demos etc works fine. I was playing Naughty Ones last night and there was no ghosting while playing it.

TBH, when I owned my Amiga the first time round, I never really went into Workbench all that much.

Im just perplexed that AlexH couldnt come up with an alternative... kinda diminishes his contribution to the thread otherwise.

Mark

[alexh]

There is no perfect solution. However there are better scandoublers than the one you chose.

There is Roy Justace's scandoubler ($65 for external RGB scandoubler) being promoted on this website and there are the Cypress CM-337 and CM-345S.

http://www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=87936
http://www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=90518

They all take 15KHz RGB input and produce 31KHz RGB output. Both also can scanrate convert to 60Hz for LCD panels.

Non are great but all are better than a scandoubler with composite video input and like a lot of scandoublers, I think they are all 16-bit.

The Cypress products are about the same price as yours (About $90)

http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html

Yours works, the quality is good enough for you, the price was within your budget, the availability was good. Who care's what a$$holes like me think? :-)

[mfletcher]

AlexH,

Thanks for the info... I wish I had known more beforehand about what options are available. I think for people getting all nostalgic about their Amiga days, and looking to re-invest in an Amiga, its invaluable.

My own process was something like this:
1) Look for an A1200... Oh Great! AmigaKit sell them!
2) Ok, get monitor adapter. Wha?!? Most monitors dont work with the Amiga, I need this... scandoubler / flickerfixer thing.
3) They're expensive, well at least the ones made by this Jan fellow are. Look for alternatives.
4) Settle on KWorld TV Tuner, as it was the only big brand I could get from Amazon/TigerDirect, with a hope of a refund if things dont work out.

I dont know the back history as to why these (the ones made by this Jan fellow) Scandoublers are no longer available. And I do understand that the R&D required to produce a new design may be cost prohibitive. So why cant the design for this device be made public? That way anyone could get the reference design and produce them in sufficient quantities when there is a significant demand.

Do the rights to the device belong to some company that does not want to license it?

Its a shame, as it would be the ideal solution. But at the same time its lack of availability could be a real barrier for people looking to get back into the community.

Personally, I'd love to see some kind of S-Video solution... at least it would be better than composite. But not having any electrical engineering skills, Im going to just have to wait and see.

Mark

[Krusher]

mfletcher wrote:
...

Personally, I'd love to see some kind of S-Video solution... at least it would be better than composite. But not having any electrical engineering skills, Im going to just have to wait and see.

Find someone who's comfortable with soldering stuff, point them to this website and a few $ for the parts and for the time, and you are good to go  :-D

[flaviosr]

and this one:
ftp://ftp.kworld.com.tw/kworld/manual/manual_install/TV_BOX_WS_Series/PDF/TVBOX_WS_Pro_HD(X8A)_English.pdf
?

Has a true VGA input!!! I have just written an email to K-World... asking for more info:
"
I was wondering about using the "TV BOX WS-PRO HD" as a Scan Doubler/Flicker Fixer for my old Amiga computer (if you know it...)...
I notice your device has a VGA input... which signal can accept (and process)...?
I would need for example to convert four main formats:
  15 kHz horizontal frequency, 640×512, flickering
  15 kHz horizontal frequency, 320×512, flickering
  15 kHz horizontal frequency, 640×256
  15 kHz horizontal frequency, 320×256
from a VGA input into your device (for best signal) to a standard VGA output!
"

Let's see...

[mfletcher]

Although it says signal input, I fear that it may be just a passthrough input, like the one on mine.

Actually I havent confirmed it, but after reading the manual and reading AlexH's post it might be likely. Nevertheless Ive ordered a VGA adapter so that I can connect my amiga to it. Hope springs eternal and all that!

[da9000]

@mfletcher:

To Alexh's and my defense, you have to understand that this topic of SD/FF (scandoubler/flickerfixer, but also of 16bit vs 24bit SD/FFs, yes, go read about it, else another 'caustic analysis' might come your way) has been a very hot one, and we're sometimes assuming people have been following/reading/searching (searching? HA!) at least one of the 10,000 threads on it. For example, as -D- said, Roy's project has been the talk of the week lately.

But of course as Nasty says, if you're happy with it, no need to be ticked about said responses... They're only extra knowledge for your memory banks.

Anyhow, in your case Roy's box is probably your best bet at the moment.

Cheers and GAME ON! :-)

PS. The fellow's name is Jens, as in Jens Schönfeld of Individual Computers.