Why do you converse?

[bloodline]

Karlos wrote:

-edit-

Unfortunately I'm far too busy trying to persuade my crust old FM synth to reproduce the metallic effects from the first half of Hybrid's remix of "Everything in it's right place"...

Poo to the FM synth... The day I sold my DX9 was a happy one :-) Three months studying a badly translated Manual to make a crappy bell sound... that my Amiga and its 8bit sampler could do far better in a matter of seconds...

I really really don't like FM synth :-D

[Karlos]

bloodline wrote:

I really really don't like FM synth :-D

Trying to recreate natural sounds with FM synthesis is both missing the point and a lost cause. I enjoy it for what it is, a method of producing unnatural sounds that can be realtime controlled in a way no wavetable/sampler can achieve.

[Karlos]

bloodline wrote:

In my own code, I split the 16bit sample into two bytes. The Most significant byte played at full volume (63) in one channel. The least significant byte played at minimum volume (1) on the other channel. It seemed to work... I didn't realise about the volume thing at first... and the noise was horrible :-)

Perhaps I was supposed to shift the least significant byte by two places... but I didn't...

I'd have thought that's a prerequisite, since you'd need the LSB to be played at 1/256th the level of the MSB for a perfectly linear channel volume. As the real volume level is only 6-bits, the top 2 significant bits of your LSB will basically overlap the 2 least significant bits of your MSB producing quite noticeable noise :-?

Of course, if Paula's volume is some freaky logarithmic scale it's possible that 1/256th of "full" volume is achievable with some low volume setting.

[bloodline]

Karlos wrote:

bloodline wrote:

I really really don't like FM synth :-D

Trying to recreate natural sounds with FM synthesis is both missing the point and a lost cause. I enjoy it for what it is, a method of producing unnatural sounds that can be realtime controlled in a way no wavetable/sampler can achieve.

You're right of  course! The sonic spectrum of the FM synth is vast! It ranges from crappy bell sound, to unpredictable noise vaguely resembling a bell...
For the really skilled, one could create bell like vibes, resonant metallic bells or hollow bell like noises... I even heard of a guy once, who was able to make a hollow resonant metallic bell like vibe sound... but despite being little bit crappy and sounding like a bell, it was a the stuff of legend... probably because he survived the experience...

Poo to the FM synth...

Ok, I'm being a bit facetious, I did manage to create a really dark spiky bass sound with a DX7 in a studio once... which was so good I sampled it on my W-30 so I could use it (Yamaha's MIDI support sucked).

[bloodline]

Karlos wrote:

bloodline wrote:

In my own code, I split the 16bit sample into two bytes. The Most significant byte played at full volume (63) in one channel. The least significant byte played at minimum volume (1) on the other channel. It seemed to work... I didn't realise about the volume thing at first... and the noise was horrible :-)

Perhaps I was supposed to shift the least significant byte by two places... but I didn't...

I'd have thought that's a prerequisite, since you'd need the LSB to be played at 1/256th the level of the MSB for a perfectly linear channel volume. As the real volume level is only 6-bits, the top 2 significant bits of your LSB will basically overlap the 2 least significant bits of your MSB producing quite noticeable noise :-?

Which goes some way to explaining why I never became a billionaire software engineer... Yeah it was noisy, but I was just happy to get it to work after the not realising about the volume thing, and that all my 16bit samples were little endian... we are taking about weeks of work here! :-)

Of course, if Paula's volume is some freaky logarithmic scale it's possible that 1/256th of "full" volume is achievable with some low volume setting.

I don't think the volume is logarithmic at all. I think I messed up. :-D

[Karlos]

bloodline wrote:
Poo to the FM synth...

Ok, I'm being a bit facetious, I did manage to create a really dark spiky bass sound with a DX7 in a studio once... which was so good I sampled it on my W-30 so I could use it (Yamaha's MIDI support sucked).

The trick is not necessarily trying to understand how it works (really, it's phase modulation rather than frequency modulation but it amounts to the same thing) and just playing with it.

I've managed to create many interesting pads, effects and bass sounds ranging from basic sinusoidal speaker shakers to deeply resonant and dirty pulses. Unfortunately my kit is limited, getting old and noisy. I'm contemplating getting the DX150 (DX7 on a card) plugin for my MU100 to replace the  vocoder I never use :-)

[bloodline]

Karlos wrote:

bloodline wrote:
Poo to the FM synth...

Ok, I'm being a bit facetious, I did manage to create a really dark spiky bass sound with a DX7 in a studio once... which was so good I sampled it on my W-30 so I could use it (Yamaha's MIDI support sucked).

The trick is not necessarily trying to understand how it works (really, it's phase modulation rather than frequency modulation but it amounts to the same thing).

I remember being quite perplexed as to how the engineers had managed to get actually quite a decent set of presets in there (compared to what I could do)... I think there big problem was the interface with required a Phd in Condensed Matter Physics , before you had a clue as to what was going on...  

That said, the PPG Wave was a pain to program, but I fell in love with that synth when I got to play with one... The sounds you can make are wonderful... I wish I had one :-)

I've managed to create many interesting pads, effects and bass sounds ranging from basic sinusoidal speaker shakers to deeply resonant and dirty pulses.

Hmmm... I expect you are a bit brighter than me and managed to see into the mind of the engineer who created the concept... I simply couldn't get my head around it... And since I was really into sampling at the time (Yeah, I was listening to industrial music), I didn't bother to waste any more time with the FM idea.

Unfortunately my kit is limited, getting old and noisy. I'm contemplating getting the DX150 (DX7 on a card) plugin for my MU100 to replace the  vocoder I never use :-)

Actually, Moto recently made an interesting suggestion regarding a Vocoder... which has made me play with my vocoders... combining them with ringshifters to add some really harsh tones to my work!!! :-D

[Karlos]

To be fair, all I did was to take the existing presets and then play with their parameters until I got something I liked. I spent a hell of a lot of time doing that until I began to get some subconcious understanding of what to expect. For instance, using modulator frequencies that are 1/2 or 1/4 of the carrier can lead to good bass sounds, or that a particular unison of operators is good for a sweep effect etc.

I don't profess to understand what the engineers were aiming for and I doubt that many of them had any idea what they were aiming for either. They just got a sound and thought about what it sounded most like afterwards :lol:

[bloodline]

Karlos wrote:

 They just got a sound and thought about what it sounded most like afterwards :lol:

:roflmao:

Many a true word said in jest ;-)

[motorollin]

Karlos wrote:
Hybrid's remix of "Everything in it's right place"...

*vomits*
Turning that song in to a dance track is a sin. In fact, I don't see why anybody would want to remix it in the first place. It's also a really lazy remix, since he seems to have just layered stuff on top of the original track rather than attempting any kind of rearrangement.

--
moto

[Speelgoedmannetje]

motorollin wrote:

Karlos wrote:
Hybrid's remix of "Everything in it's right place"...

*vomits*
Turning that song in to a dance track is a sin.

I see new Camp challenges  :devildance:

[HenryCase]

In the interests of balance I thought I would post here. Whilst I agree that conversation can be enjoyable, I find myself unable to fully enjoy it. The small talk side of conversation, whilst it does serve a purpose, can be something people feel trapped by, not confident in expressing anything deeper. This in turn reduces the perceived value of conversation, discouraging people from breaking free of small talk, and meaning important facets of the person you are speaking to become lost.

I may be an isolated case, but I thought my opinions were worth sharing anyway.

[bloodline]

 :oops: I've just noticed a rather blatant Freudian slip that I made early in my hijacking of this thread :-)

[Karlos]

motorollin wrote:

Karlos wrote:
Hybrid's remix of "Everything in it's right place"...

*vomits*
Turning that song in to a dance track is a sin. In fact, I don't see why anybody would want to remix it in the first place. It's also a really lazy remix, since he seems to have just layered stuff on top of the original track rather than attempting any kind of rearrangement.

--
moto

As far as hybrid remixes go, it is pretty poor (no doubt due to the fact you can't get an acapella or instrumental version of the original in order to rearrange it) which is probably why this remix has never been released. It does have a very good build and breakdown (from a mixing perspective) which makes it ideal for mixing into other sets and it's rarely played in isolation.

Some of their other remixes are, frankly, awesome. Regardless of the perceived quality of this one, I rather like the synth programming and if that isn't FM I'll eat my hat.

Still, I prefer Hybrid's own work over their remixes and "Wide Angle" remains one of my favourite albums.

[motorollin]

HenryCase wrote:
In the interests of balance I thought I would post here. Whilst I agree that conversation can be enjoyable, I find myself unable to fully enjoy it. The small talk side of conversation, whilst it does serve a purpose, can be something people feel trapped by, not confident in expressing anything deeper. This in turn reduces the perceived value of conversation, discouraging people from breaking free of small talk, and meaning important facets of the person you are speaking to become lost.

I may be an isolated case, but I thought my opinions were worth sharing anyway.

I wasn't asking only about "small talk", but also about meaningful conversation. Interesting points though! I agree that "small talk" can be inhibiting, but it can also be a good starting point for conversation until people find something more personal in common about which to talk.

--
moto

[motorollin]

bloodline wrote:
 :oops: I've just noticed a rather blatant Freudian slip that I made early in my hijacking of this thread :-)

I can't believe I missed it :inquisitive: You going to tell us or make us trawl through you and Karlos rambling on about numbers? :-P

--
moto