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Author Topic: what the hell is an amiga one?  (Read 8243 times)

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Offline redrumloa

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 11:57:55 AM »
Quote

B00tDisk wrote:
Dude I have some Cyrix based packard bell P1 clones I'd like to show you...!  

 :-o


 :lol:

Oh yeah, Packard Bell was bad back then!! But really, I still think the AmigaOne takes the crown.
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Offline Varthall

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 12:25:57 PM »
On the other hand, OS4 is a joy to use and it is what I have always dreamt AmigaOS to be. This is one of the reasons why I don't regret having bought my AmigaOne.

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Offline mpiva

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 02:20:04 PM »
Quote

persia wrote:
Not allowed? Is there some sort of OS4 Fairy that stops them?


Actually yes there is... and the fairy's name is AmigaInc. :crazy:
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Offline spirantho

Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2008, 02:20:52 PM »
The A1 is ... controversial. :)

However, three important facts:

1) It's the fastest and stablest way of running AmigaOS 4 by far.
2) There's no way you're having mine because it's far too nice a machine; AOS 4 runs beautifully on it and I've had zero troubles whatsoever with it.
3) See 2). It's important enough to mention twice.

So you can listen to people without them moan and gripe all you like, fact is you can't get one because hardly anyone wants to sell them. That's a bit strange for what is apparently "the worst consumer product of all time", don't you think?
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Offline jorkany

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2008, 02:38:40 PM »
rednova,

The AmigaOne was more of a scheme than a product, concocted by Alan Redhouse of Eyetech. He wanted to figure out some way to squeeze a little extra cash out of the sagging Amiga community, and in rehashed-game publisher Hyperion he saw his opportunity.

Hyperion at the time had ambitions of doing more than just re-releasing staid old videogame titles, in fact they had their sights on becoming the new Amiga. To achieve this goal they came up with the idea of creating an Amiga-branded OS. All they needed was hardware to run it on.

For whatever reason both Hyperion and Eyetech were fixated on PPC-only hardware. Eyetech had a line on a Chinese wannabe chip fabricator named MAI, who to promote their product produced a series of evaluation boards to allow their potential customers to try out their bus controller component. These eval boards, which carried the name "Teron", were PPC-based.

Eyetech and Hyperion got in touch, pleaded with Amiga Inc. for license to use the Amiga name, and Eyetech began ordering Teron evaluation boards like there was no tomorrow, labeling said boards as "AmigaOne".

Unfortunately there was a problem with MAI: their bus controller was buggy. However, this didn't seem to phase their biggest customer, Eyetech, who continued to buy MAI's evaluation boards throughout serveral redesigns. To explain away the differences in MAIs board designs Eyetech began labelling them differently: AmigaOne XE, Micro A1, etc. As for the faulty bus controller, this wasn't much of an issue for Hyperion as they explained it away by saying the MAI controller was simply too advanced for lowly bus operations. While this didn't address any of the problems with the bus controller, it did have the effect of placating many AmigaOne purchasers who apparently believed that Hyperion would somehow release a version of OS4 "advanced" enough to be able to magically repair the faulty hardware.

In fact the MAI controller wasn't the only problem with the Teron aka AmigaOne boards. Initially a number of the boards didn't include the sound controller component, most likely because MAI felt that an evaluation board didn't really need audio. But when their biggest customer (Eyetech) complained, they began adding audio. Also MAI had  also chosen to use a faulty VIA component for the USB bus.

MAI seems to have rectified the USB problem in the final iteration of the Teron (aka Micro A1), but by then it was too late - MAI was geared towards selling components not motherboards, yet their main customer was only interested in buying whatever evaluation boards they could slap together. Their flagship product, the bus controller, was broken and apparently MAI lacked the expertise, time or money to redesign it. MAI went out of business around 2004 - 2005.

Eyetech continued to sell the evaluation boards they had stockpiled under the AmigaOne name, but with MAI out of business even Alan could see the gig was up. Eyetech sold all of their Amiga related stock to a well-known Amiga product vendor, and thankfully closed their doors and left the Amiga scene entirely.

Hopefully that answers your question about the AmigaOne. But it might leave you wondering about Hyperion and their OS4 product. Well, it turns out Hyperion wasn't as smart as Eyetech. With no new PPC hardware left Hyperion was forced to revert to their original (circa 2000) idea of producing a version of OS4 that could run on the almost forgotten Blizzard and Cyberstorm PPC expansion cards. While recuperating their development losses thru OS4 sales on these old expansion cards seemed like a long shot, it's really the only chance Hyperion had, so they spent a couple of years finishing up that version which eventually went on sale a few months ago. While it does seem to have helped to bolster the sale prices of the expansion cards on Ebay, whether Hyperion made enough from the "classic" OS4 sales to get them out of the red remains a matter of speculation.

 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2008, 02:54:38 PM »
@jorkany

That's funny but fairly accurate, in a trollish kind of way :lol:
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Offline spirantho

Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2008, 02:55:27 PM »
I was wondering why some of the other Amiga sites are getting refugees from Amiga.org ... after posts like this one I can see why.

I've not read such a biased and unfair post in the name of "fact" in quite some time.

The reality is simply that Eyetech needed a PPC board, and MAI were the only ones making one cheap enough; it turned out there were flaws, some of which (i.e. the USB) were easily fixed, some weren't. That's what you get when you buy low-volume products. The sound chip was on the original boards but Eyetech didn't think they could be used, but eventually enterprising A1 owners worked out how to. By this time, however, A1s had been made without the sound chip as it was deemed useless.

If you want to know what AmigaOnes are really like there are sites that are more AmigaOS 4-focused. They'll still be biased (in the other direction), but at least you'll be able to see the truth between the two of them.

In the mean time can we please stick to facts rather than attacking companies which for one reason or another we don't like?
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Offline Piru

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2008, 03:00:46 PM »
@jorkany

That's how I saw it, too: Amateurs ripping people off. Just the fact that there was no working guarantee program is just inexcusable (at some point the higher price of the hardware was justified with extensive "quality assurance" testing and guarantee program... yeah sure).

At the same time as this silly "amiga"one debacle was going on there was some real, working PPC product available.

Oh, and lets not forget that Amiga Inc and Hyperion are now engaged in bitter legal fight over ownership of OS4. The fight has gone on for aeons and there's no end in sight...
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2008, 03:06:16 PM »
Quote

spirantho wrote:
I was wondering why some of the other Amiga sites are getting refugees from Amiga.org ... after posts like this one I can see why.

I've not read such a biased and unfair post in the name of "fact" in quite some time.

The reality is simply that Eyetech needed a PPC board, and MAI were the only ones making one cheap enough.


Really?!?! If only that were true... :roll:

Offline spirantho

Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2008, 03:10:04 PM »
As I recall it there were three available PPC motherboards:
1) Macintoshes.  These were no good because of difficulty getting developer info and because the designs would keep changing because Eyetech would have no say whatsoever.
2) IBM PowerPC reference boards. These were very expensive or demanded large production runs.
3) The MAI board.

It was the lesser of three evils.

That's how I remember it anyway. One thing's for sure, it wasn't some great anti-Amiga user conspiracy like people are trying to make out here.
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Offline Piru

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2008, 03:10:23 PM »
@spirantho
Quote
The reality is simply that Eyetech needed a PPC board, and MAI were the only ones making one cheap enough

And the board by competition didn't have the flaws, was better built, and cheaper.
Quote
By this time, however, A1s had been made without the sound chip as it was deemed useless.

No, actually the sound chip was dropped because the programmers didn't know how to initialize it properly and they thought the chip or related parts of the board didn't work properly. The sound chip was always ok.

That debacle alone speaks volumes. Never let amateurs run a HW project.
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2008, 03:10:52 PM »
Quote

spirantho wrote:
I was wondering why some of the other Amiga sites are getting refugees from Amiga.org ... after posts like this one I can see why.


People are fleeing from freedom of speech? Think about this for a moment. Anyone is free to point out how great the AmigaOne is, as a few such as yourself have. Amigaworld.net also allows freedom of speech nowadays, last time I checked. There are a few extremely low traffic self proclaimed OS4 centric sites out there AFAIK, but I've been told they heavily censor free speech. Is that what you are promoting?

Quote
The reality is simply that Eyetech needed a PPC board, and MAI were the only ones making one cheap enough;


Genesi was making the Pegasos II for half the price, and there was at least one other company. The Pegasos II worked as avertised and carried a true warranty.
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Offline Hans_

Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2008, 03:19:30 PM »
Oh boy, this thread is so overloaded with spin, hearsay, and spit and venom, that it's pretty hard to pull the facts from fiction.

Here's my understanding of what the A1 is:
Designed to run Amiga OS4, the A1 boards were produced by Eyetech to be the next generation Amiga. It uses PowerPC CPUs mounted on a card; both G3 and G4 cards exist (apparently there are a few prototype dual-processor CPU cards in existence, but I've never seen them). They use SDRAM (133 MHz), have a 2x AGP slot and several PCI slots.

They are pretty much the Teron reference design created by MAI Logic. Eyetech claim to have worked on them and made improvements, but any changes probably made their way back to the Teron dev. boards too.

Unfortunately MAI logic's northbridge chipset is buggy, and they are now out of business. This results in a series of flaws for which software workarounds are in place, wherever possible. Added to this, the southbridge is a VIA686b, which is known to be buggy, even on x86 boards (VIA refusing to help out with undocumented features, etc., didn't help).

I have an A1, and for "the worst consumer product of all time" and "total garbage," it actually works quite well. The bugs have a performance hit (e.g., memory access is slower than it should be), but Amiga OS4 works well on it and is fun to use.

They are no longer produced, for obvious reasons: the chipsets are buggy and the specifications are dated. Unfortunately, no replacement system has been forthcoming. Sure there are plenty of PowerPC hardware that could theoretically be used to run OS4, but no licenses have been given, and legal issues are blocking this.

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Offline Hans_

Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2008, 03:25:09 PM »
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Quote

spirantho wrote:
I was wondering why some of the other Amiga sites are getting refugees from Amiga.org ... after posts like this one I can see why.


People are fleeing from freedom of speech?


There's freedom of speech, and then there are people spewing out opinions as facts and generally deriding things other people like. Most of the "facts" here come from people who have never used an A1. Having to listen to negative BS is unappealing.

Quote

Quote
The reality is simply that Eyetech needed a PPC board, and MAI were the only ones making one cheap enough;


Genesi was making the Pegasos II for half the price, and there was at least one other company. The Pegasos II worked as avertised and carried a true warranty.


I would have preferred it if they had gone that route. The Pegasos II is undoubtedly a better board.

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Offline redrumloa

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2008, 03:30:07 PM »
Quote
I have an A1, and for "the worst consumer product of all time" and "total garbage," it actually works quite well. The bugs have a performance hit (e.g., memory access is slower than it should be), but Amiga OS4 works well on it and is fun to use.


I think you are confusing OS4 with AmigaOne. OS4 may work well and assist the hardware with workarounds, but that doesn't make the A1 any less buggy / unreliable. Even in your explaination you explain the problems.

Can you name a worse motherboard or other mass produced consumer product in recent history? I am curious.
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Offline McVenco

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Re: what the hell is an amiga one?
« Reply #29 from previous page: March 20, 2008, 03:32:50 PM »
Quote

Can you name a worse motherboard or other mass produced consumer product in recent history? I am curious.


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