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Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 13, 2008, 02:52:39 PM »
Yeah I wondered when this would turn from an attack ebay thread to attack Microsoft thread..

You guys are wrong about this, and I'd direct you to these statistics..

Here are some statistics from Jeffrey Jones Report. I suggest you sit down and read the entire report. You will see that this isn't political, but a fair and honest assessment. It's just tracking of the numbers of patches/vulnerabilities and what actually happened. You can download it right
HERE...

For those who want to read the reality of this..

These graphs tell the story (and these are just recorded numbers of the actual number of reported exploits/vulnerabilities that were made public by all of the companies.. There are a number of non-public updates from each, but this tells the story, they couldn't make this up..















As you can see from the graphs RedHat and Ubuntu had the most and Apple well, this is year one comparison..

The facts speak for themselves, Apple OS X 10.4 was worse than Vista build 6000 for patches during it's first year...For reported problems that saw public updates (these are the numbers for public updates that were pushed to customers)..

You guys need to get the facts straight about all of this.. Advertising doesn't always hold up to reality..

If you still don't believe this..

Check out this computerworld/Yahoo article..

Who Patches Bugs Faster Microsoft or Apple..

QUOTE:

"Researchers from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology looked at how many times over the past six years the two vendors were able to have a patch available on the day a vulnerability became publicly known, which they call the zero-day patch rate.


They analyzed 658 vulnerabilities affecting Microsoft products and 738 affecting Apple. They looked at only high- and medium-risk bugs, according to the classification used by the National Vulnerability Database, said Stefan Frei, one of the researchers involved in the study.


What they found is that, contrary to popular belief that Apple makes more secure products, Apple lags behind in patching.


"Apple was below 20 [unpatched vulnerabilities at disclosure] consistently before 2005," Frei said. "Since then, they are very often above. So if you have Apple and compare it to Microsoft, the number of unpatched vulnerabilities are higher at Apple."


It's generally good for vendors to have a software fix available when a vulnerability is disclosed, since hackers often try to find out where the problem is in order to write malicious software to hack a machine.

For a vendor to have a patch ready when the bug is detailed in public, it needs to get prior information from either its security analysts or external ones. Otherwise the vendor has to hurry to create a patch, but that process can be lengthy, given the rigorous testing needed to test the patch to ensure it does not conflict with other software.

Apple only started patching zero-day vulnerabilities in late 2003, Frei said. " ...

"However, the study proved to be such a glowing affirmation of Microsoft's increased focus on security in the past few years that it prompted Cushman to ask Frei, "Did Microsoft fund this research?"

"This is independent academic research," Frei replied."

The sad realization is Apple's TV ads are fun but LIE about many things.. By the way I love OSX  and own a Mac Mini in addition to a number of PCs (including my new Core2Quad, with GeForce 9600GTX), I just want to keep this "REAL" in everyone's mind.. The facts are the facts and I don't really see one OS as being more secure as the other with proof that can be demonstrated.

Of course Swiss Federal is not a USA based organization. I just live in the USA, you could attack Swiss Federal but would they lie? That have an impeccable reputation for honesty.
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Offline meega

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2008, 03:04:10 PM »
35 are since August 2007.
:)
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2008, 03:16:51 PM »
Hi

Giggles... Worried are we. Should be. I just spent the whole weekend irradicating cmdservice and Network Monitor from an XP machine and I would beg to differ. Took me numerous goes with a mass of time on internet forums and tech help that would suggest your claims are utterly bogus. I have a Mac here also, and Win98 and Amigas and I get not one of jot of the problems I get with an XP machine... God help me if I have to use a Vista machine. Sorry, but experience and use is my best guide. And sorry, I have already spent far far too long this weekend with MS thankyou.

If the world of MS is so rosy why is the internet filled [ filled ] with logs from Hijack This.

scuzz
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Offline scuzzb494

Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2008, 03:33:24 PM »
PS On that XP and MS thang

I would only criticize something if it were worthy of criticism and I have a desk littered with the debris of notes and guidance notes on file checks, registry changes, script deletions, tech help sites, logs, bogus dll name, removal tools,  advice on how to instigate changes etc etc etc etc and no end of reboot sessions... and yes that annoys me. Especially as I just want to use the computer. However, I switch the Mac on and it works.... I switch the Amiga on and it works... and even this Win98 machine. You tell me whether something deserves criticism. This is not a bashing session it is ' a sad realisation ' and what's even more sad is that ... It didn't have to be this way. The good guys ' lost '

scuzz

Offline DonnyEMU

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2008, 03:44:40 PM »
Maybe you should experience Windows beyond XP.. The fact is XP service pack 2 was a rewrite of XP aimed at fixing a lot of the security issues. It was such a problem that happened, that Vista/Windows Server 2008 was totally rewritten from the ground up.

My claims are from bogus, and I dare you to "experience" it for yourself. As you see the momentum with this start to change and people opinions change, then I will have to say "I told you so". You'll be behind the 8 ball on this.

It's interesting you mention you have a Win98 machine. Windows 98 has been discontinued from support for nearly 3 years now. I wouldn't keep 98 on any machines, simply it can't be made secure.  

If you were using Vista you would have have never seen either of those things you mentioned with XP, or see them even finding their way onto the machine. It's simply not vulnerable to anythin you mentioned. Also, the new reliability monitor would have easily have identified anything that could have crept in.  

Your "experience and use" doesn't even mention you have ever had Vista running with the current release (SP1), so how do you even know? You know making an "assumption" isn't really fair or balanced and usually leads to problems. That's simple problem solving 101.

Vista is the most secure OS out there especially with Service Pack 1 and Windows Server 2008 (which it's based on)..

The fact is HijackThis logs are mostly people running XP (a lot if you look at .DLLs versions listed aren't even SERVICE PACK 2.

Since moving from XP to Vista (nearly 2 years ago myself) I haven't had virus, or malware to worry about..

If you want to know how secure Vista is versus XP and anything else check out this book, it's a free download.. Remember when you also talk about Vista, it's basically the same codebase now (down to the kernel) as Windows Server 2008. So I'd just question how secure you think that is..

You need to move away from XP, it will give you a lot more free time..

Vista Security Guide Free Download..
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Offline tokyoracerTopic starter

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2008, 03:55:43 PM »
I hate it when MAC users go upto me and say they can get virus's cuz' thats just bulls**t, the fact of the matter is that they are rarer mosly becuse people prefer to hate Bill Gates rather then whoever owns Apple these days. Plus I hear it's harder to program virus's on Macs apparently but they are about and because MR.Mac user hasn't got anything to stop them he will get a huge surprise one day.

Mind you I think Vista is more crap then the latest Apple OS but as both have so many issues right now i'm staying put. XP has developed into a really nice system and I hope to keep it that way for years to come.
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »
Goodness me... You seem to be missing the point here. Do you understand the term ' If it ain`t broke '. I am typing this on a Win98 machine. It works fine. It is not infected with anything. It runs smoothly without interuption and does everything I need. I have a complete duplicate of this machine in a box just in case it fails. As long as I can use this in the way I intended... why would I change. You fail to mention that for me to use Vista I would need all new hardware. I would only do that if I got something worth the expenditure, and sorry modern PCs are like food without taste. At least the Mac is honest to it's hardware. And my Mac is working just fine. Has managed to bridge various OS upgrades without the need to replace everything. Works perfectly, always has, always will. As to the Amigas well these represent the glory days of computing when things were done properly so I have absolutely no worries there. So you see I get by with kit and OSs that were developed to my accepted perameters that function perfectly and to a standard that need none of the fixes you suggest. Honestly, why would I risk my passion on an OS that needs ' all new kit ' to function. Vista should work, shouldn`t it ? I mean its been in development for so long, and given the resources and money at MS disposal it would be insulting to suggest anything else. Trouble is when the cracks appear the hackers will be in in a jot. I care not. I have far more time for the lovers of classic and developers of really interesting kit like say the MiniMig. Cus here we have real computer enthusiasts. Hopefully we can keep the flag flying on classic for my lifetime at least. As to Vista Nahhh!!! Not ready to quit on computing just yet.

scuzz
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Offline swoslover

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2008, 11:22:11 PM »
2 points

I have had a mac and a pc in recent months and I have to say my mac has given me far less problems, seems generally more stable, quicker and, this in spite of having on paper inferior hardware.  

My pc seemed to forever crash and experience major lag, while getting slower by the day, while my apple seems to have pretty much stayed the same.  This is, though, only  my experience.

Anyway this thread is baout ebay's new listings which I also find irritating.

Anyway if you go to shop.ebay.com there will be an option to opt out of this new scheme.  However for uk users if you go back to the uk ebay it will revert to the new search if you return straight away.  To avoid this I have to empty my cache and it seems to work, although I do have to repeat the process every few days.

Hope this is of use to someone.


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Offline Ami_GFX

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2008, 03:27:52 AM »
I'd say OS X is more secure than any version of Windows both in concept and implimentation. It is a real slick and sound version of Unix and it improves on the already excellent security of Unix with quite a few tricks of it's own. The amount of vulneralbilities patched is not a true measure of how secure a system really is. Windows fails because, even though it can be secured, this ends up being a real pain to the user while it is graceful and transparent in OS X so users aren't pained by security and don't turn off key security features because they are annoyed by them. They don't even notice them at all which is the way good security should work.
A2500 owned since 1993 with A2630/DKB 2632, DKB Megachip, GVP EGS Spectrum, A2320 and GVP HC+8 on the inside and a DCTV on the outside. A4000D with CSPPC, Cybervision 64 and a Flicker Magic flicker fixer. A4000T Toaster Flyer & CSMKII. All systems completly retro and classic and mostly used to do geometic art as in my avatar.
 

Offline Damion

Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2008, 04:53:19 AM »
Yeah, ebay sucks so bad that I managed to pick up a NIB A500 there a few months back... for $25 :-P

 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2008, 05:09:33 AM »
Quote
scuzzb494 wrote:
I can almost hear the websites owners scratching their heads... ' My god he's using IE 5.5 '.

You are not as special as you may think.  I see browsers reporting to be IE 3.01 often enough, not to mention early versions of Netscape.  And personally, I know of several people using Windows 3.x and IE 3.01 or an old MacOS with Netscape Navigator.  Given that, I tend to believe my web statistics.

Quote
You can't believe the crap I avoid this way.  You can avoid it... but means going backwards.

Possibly, but I also avoid a lot of crap by using Firefox with a standard complement of plug-ins.  Especially useful for MySpace, eBay, and various news sites.  Local TV sites are the absolute worst for being overly busy and chock full of advertisements.  Well, maybe not as bad as fr33 pr0n sites, but you get the point.

Of course, you are not a man unless you browse with Lynx.  You REALLY beat the crap using that!
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: eBay is useless now!
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2008, 05:21:52 AM »
Quote

Ami_GFX wrote:

The amount of vulneralbilities patched is not a true measure of how secure a system really is. Windows fails because, even though it can be secured, this ends up being a real pain to the user while it is graceful and transparent in OS X so users aren't pained by security and don't turn off key security features because they are annoyed by them. They don't even notice them at all which is the way good security should work.


Do you mean un-patched vulnerabilities?  Check the rap sheets and you will notice that OSX and Windows have a similar number of vulnerabilities.  I see your point about transparent security, and there is an article on either /. or El Reg which talks about how Microsoft deliberately made UAC to annoy users in order make them more aware of security, but it had the opposite effect overall.  :crazy:

In this year's "Pwn to Own" contest, the Mac OSX laptop fell first.  Mind you none of the laptops hacked fell on the first day, which was attempts to compromise the operating system.  While the operating systems themselves have a number of ways to break them, a great number of vulnerabilities are due to bad software or drivers.

If you are running Windows, check out Secunia's PSI scanner.  It tells you what software you are running.  http://psi.secunia.com

EDIT: I cut my sentence short.  The PSI scanner tells you what software you are running which may be insecure by way of known vulnerabilities, end-of-life, or otherwise.  It has a LOT of software in its database, and in most cases can send you directly to the update download.  Finally, an all-in-one update solution!