What would you like to see in a new Amiga?

[AndrewBell]

after we agree on what it should have.

That doesn't seems likely to happen. Some want legacy compatibility, some want a clean break with the past.

Personally, I'd like a new machine to have the low price/high power of current AMD/Intel processors, with drivers for nVidia/ATI GPUs, fast wireless ethernet, and SATAII.

For the OS, keep it a single user system, and include a native version of VideoLAN Client, Opera, YAM, ACDSee, Nero and a cellphone application.
________
VAAAPP VAPORIZER

[Agafaster]

Jeff wrote:
Availability:-D!

-Jeff

seconded:

The thing I'd most like to see in a new Amiga is:



 a new Amiga !

[downix]

McVenco wrote:

Tahoe wrote:
A soul. And that's something they'll never get again.

Sad but true. Very true.

The Amiga as a separate/independent hardware platform will never exist anymore. The only possible "new Amiga" will be an Amiga-like OS running on some standard hardware. And the "soul" in this system has to come from the community that uses it. Which, I'm sorry to say, hasn't got much soul left either apart from some people determined to at least do something for an Amiga-ish system (MorphOS, AROS).

You haven't studied what is available lately, have you?  While yes, there is a start-up cost, you can do semi-custom and even custom work for a fraction of the cost that was done back even a decade ago.  FPGA's, CPLD's,Structured ASIC's, all bring the cost of a custom machine down to at least the affordable range.

Look at Apple, while yes it might use commodity components, it uses custom PCB's and designwork, giving their equipment different properties than the usual PC design.  That is one approach that works for them.  Other options abound, you just have to quit being so defeated and actually look around.

Look at my buddy icon for a second.  Do you realize that Sun bucks the trend, with "the rule" that x86 is the only processor in the world for desktop, workstation or server work?  Also "the rule" that a CPU has to be from a single vendor, as their CPU's can be found made by both Fuji and TI, with no difference to the application code used.  They succeed where others fail, maybe you should look at things a bit more positively.

[persia]

A simply box, everything nowadays is usb, so may 8 to 10 USB ports, a couple firewire ports, dvi video, sata hard drive, PCI video.  Gigabit ethernet.  Built in blue tooth. Built in wireless.  Come with a Quad Core Xenon with sockets for up to three more.

That's really all you need in this day and age.

[persia]

A simply box, everything nowadays is usb, so may 8 to 10 USB ports, a couple firewire ports, dvi video, sata hard drive, PCI video.  Gigabit ethernet.  Built in blue tooth. Built in wireless.  Come with a Quad Core Xenon with sockets for up to three more.

That's really all you need in this day and age.

[Agafaster]

after we agree on what it should have.

 :lol:

If you get 3 amiga fans in a room, you'll get 5 different opinions.

[Painkiller]

CELL

and availability Oh wait PS3! port AmigaOS over there, maybe the MorphOS team will drop us a bone

[McVenco]

downix wrote:

You haven't studied what is available lately, have you?  While yes, there is a start-up cost, you can do semi-custom and even custom work for a fraction of the cost that was done back even a decade ago.  FPGA's, CPLD's,Structured ASIC's, all bring the cost of a custom machine down to at least the affordable range.

I know very well what's available these days. It's indeed very comfortable not to have to design expensive chips since you can put pretty much anything in FPGA's or the likes. Still, you will have to make a custom mainboard then in some way so, although being cheaper, it's still going to be quite costly when you make very few of them for a small userbase (look at the SAM440 - it's a nice board but too expensive because it's not made in high numbers)

Look at Apple, while yes it might use commodity components, it uses custom PCB's and designwork, giving their equipment different properties than the usual PC design.  That is one approach that works for them.  Other options abound, you just have to quit being so defeated and actually look around.

Apple has been around for around 3 decades now. The Amiga has been pretty much dead for half of that time now. To design and build new hardware and software that can compete with modern day standards will need either a lot of time from a few people, or a hell of a lot of money. Probably both. That's why a "new Amiga" as in new hardware will never exist. Nobody wants to spend tens of thousands (millions?) of dollars/euros on designing something that is doomed to fail because only 351 people will buy that machine.

Look at my buddy icon for a second.  Do you realize that Sun bucks the trend, with "the rule" that x86 is the only processor in the world for desktop, workstation or server work?  Also "the rule" that a CPU has to be from a single vendor, as their CPU's can be found made by both Fuji and TI, with no difference to the application code used.  They succeed where others fail, maybe you should look at things a bit more positively.

Sun has been around a long time as well and has a long-time userbase. It's not that I don't believe in the possibility of a new Amiga system with non-standard hardware, I just believe (no, wait: I KNOW) that it isn't economically viable to design such a system.

Let the Amiga exist in the same way as, say, Haiku. An open source OS running on standard wintel-ish hardware (or a Mac or Sun for that matter). That way it's far more accessible for a large public, and still programmers can have their way to make use of the hardware in a very efficient and non-hogging way (unlike Vista for example).

[Ball000]

Wait... this thread is about AROS, isn't it?
:-p

[swift240]

This is most obvious to every one,
DDR ram
PCI Express
SATA
OS4.0
Good sound, modern.
And a Video port that gives 15Khz for backward compatibility for those 500 games.
Doubler for 15Khz software auto switchable.
A switch ROM 500/1200
Serial port
Parallel port.
USB ports
Firewire.
SD card reader.
32 meg Chip Ram
Unlimited Fastram
Game port as well as USB.
Standard mouse port as in all PC`s
Hardware Firewall on chip
Ethernet.
memory protection
And a nice little program that when software is used and when the software is closed down the program auto clears memory in a full way/switchable to on off
Female voice "Hello (name) Amiga now starting all system are fine, enjoy my system."
And a boot up picture of an Amiga from the 500 to the modern hi-tech Amiga in light speed mode leaving microsoft way behind.
And then a message saying "Todays Amiga, using tomorrows technology."
A software program that will tell the user exactly what is being used and where.
Firefox ported.
Thunderbird ported.
OpenOffice ported.
Opera ported.
WIFI mouse/keyboard
Menu commands in female voice optional
PNG Icons.
Magic Menu.
Fully customizable menu system

Ohhhh yes and a bucket so the Microsoft fans can throw up in.


Mike.

[downix]

McVenco wrote:

downix wrote:

You haven't studied what is available lately, have you?  While yes, there is a start-up cost, you can do semi-custom and even custom work for a fraction of the cost that was done back even a decade ago.  FPGA's, CPLD's,Structured ASIC's, all bring the cost of a custom machine down to at least the affordable range.

I know very well what's available these days. It's indeed very comfortable not to have to design expensive chips since you can put pretty much anything in FPGA's or the likes. Still, you will have to make a custom mainboard then in some way so, although being cheaper, it's still going to be quite costly when you make very few of them for a small userbase (look at the SAM440 - it's a nice board but too expensive because it's not made in high numbers)

Look at Apple, while yes it might use commodity components, it uses custom PCB's and designwork, giving their equipment different properties than the usual PC design.  That is one approach that works for them.  Other options abound, you just have to quit being so defeated and actually look around.

Apple has been around for around 3 decades now. The Amiga has been pretty much dead for half of that time now. To design and build new hardware and software that can compete with modern day standards will need either a lot of time from a few people, or a hell of a lot of money. Probably both. That's why a "new Amiga" as in new hardware will never exist. Nobody wants to spend tens of thousands (millions?) of dollars/euros on designing something that is doomed to fail because only 351 people will buy that machine.

Look at my buddy icon for a second.  Do you realize that Sun bucks the trend, with "the rule" that x86 is the only processor in the world for desktop, workstation or server work?  Also "the rule" that a CPU has to be from a single vendor, as their CPU's can be found made by both Fuji and TI, with no difference to the application code used.  They succeed where others fail, maybe you should look at things a bit more positively.

Sun has been around a long time as well and has a long-time userbase. It's not that I don't believe in the possibility of a new Amiga system with non-standard hardware, I just believe (no, wait: I KNOW) that it isn't economically viable to design such a system.

Let the Amiga exist in the same way as, say, Haiku. An open source OS running on standard wintel-ish hardware (or a Mac or Sun for that matter). That way it's far more accessible for a large public, and still programmers can have their way to make use of the hardware in a very efficient and non-hogging way (unlike Vista for example).

Well, let us look at this for a minute.  One of the proposals I put forth awhile back was to cut a deal with a PC motherboard vendor for a custom run of their boards, with the BIOS removed and a custom firmware, such as the Amithlon kernel, embedded in its place.  You'd suddenly have a new Amiga with minimal R&D and start up costs.  Only a minimum order # for them to preload the ROM for you (100 units, incidentally).  You might have a standard PC board, but you would eliminate 99% of the headaches of PC's, that is getting parts to work.  You do the same with the peripheral cards, video and such, and put them into a prebuilt system.  While yes, you can use non-approved cards using special drivers, the cards you provide have the firmware pre-installed and prepared, for only a nominal extra charge...

[huronking]

Blinking text.

And a 16M Chip Ram jumper.

[McVenco]

downix wrote:

One of the proposals I put forth awhile back was to cut a deal with a PC motherboard vendor for a custom run of their boards, with the BIOS removed and a custom firmware, such as the Amithlon kernel, embedded in its place.

Congratulations, so you have a 2008 spec computer running a 1994 operating system (or a derivate of it). Sure, it may be fast but you will still have the drawbacks of the ancient stuff. You need to do some serious programming to be able to use all of the modern hardware that can make use of that new system, and I'm not even starting on modern software.

I like the idea, but I have very serious doubts that it can be done - not without major work from lots of people, or it won't be done until 2022 (and then the competition will be 14 years ahead still....)

[Ancalimon]

I'd like it to support easy to find hardware. And I'd like it to have a perfect browser and some multimedia applications that meets todays standards. That's all.

[amigadave]

A combination of Amithlon and WinUAE to provide backward compatibility and speed on modern hardware.  What is needed more than anything else, is modern software that meets and exceeds the capabilities of other OSes and to accomplish that goal programmers must have all the tools necessary to create great software quickly and easily for the AmigaOS.  How can we bring all the Amiga programmers together on a common modern Amiga platform and how can we entice the former Amiga programmers to come back and work on new Amiga programs again?

Amiga has a great wealth of software in archives such as Aminet, but how much of that software is truly useful today?  Some Open Source software may be able to be ported to the AmigaOS, but what made the Amiga special during the "Glory Days" were the creative minds of Amiga programmers that were inspired to create software that had not been dreamed of before.  

The new Amiga must do all the things that Windows, Linux and Mac computers do and many new things that the others currently don't do, or can't do.  The new Amiga must solve human problems, or offer new services that have not been thought of yet.  To make any kind of impact in the minds of people that use other OSes, the new Amiga must have some kind of "WOW" factor.  Something that will make them sit up and take notice of what is being offered that is so much better and different that it will be seen as a breakthrough, just as the original Amiga was when it was introduced.  This time it will not be because the hardware is unique and better, it will be because the OS and the applications written for it are so revolutionary and superior.  The philosophy of doing more with less naturally makes for a more efficient design.

[downix]

McVenco wrote:

downix wrote:

One of the proposals I put forth awhile back was to cut a deal with a PC motherboard vendor for a custom run of their boards, with the BIOS removed and a custom firmware, such as the Amithlon kernel, embedded in its place.

Congratulations, so you have a 2008 spec computer running a 1994 operating system (or a derivate of it). Sure, it may be fast but you will still have the drawbacks of the ancient stuff. You need to do some serious programming to be able to use all of the modern hardware that can make use of that new system, and I'm not even starting on modern software.

I like the idea, but I have very serious doubts that it can be done - not without major work from lots of people, or it won't be done until 2022 (and then the competition will be 14 years ahead still....)

You don't need to use "all" of the modern hardware, only a subset that will give you the functions needed.  So, we'd be limited to say ATI *or* nVidia cards, but not both, for example.

Focus on getting the core together, to give one spec or a limited SPEC that can be worked from.  Software wise you are quite right, our apps have vanished, save some hangers on like Aladdin and ImageFX.