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[DaveP]

I am split 50/50 about whether its a good idea, if they had done what Bplan did with MorphOS and "got it out there" regardless on PPC hardware it might have crashed a lot and we would kiss goodbye to the AmigaOS "reputation" for not being responsible for everyday crashes ( although lack of application space crash protection is still annoying ).

See? They could have released it earlier BUT they know they will get crucified if its released earlier than it otherwise would be.

I haven't said "Oh yes well AmigaOS4 would have been released before MorphOS otherwise" or even that this is the only reason.

Sheesh.

[DaveP]

@Magnetic

@Dave P
Its funny that such a cute avatar can hide such a troll!

Grow up dude.

 You are talking absolute BS about MorphOS. I have been running MOS 1.3 since April and it is more reliable than OS 3.9 and Amiga 4000T here.

No, you fool, go and read it again, I said that it got a reputation deserved or undeserved for being crash prone after two erroneous showings where Ambient crashed like hell.

I never said it was less reliable than AmigaOS, I pointed out the two project management choices you have - release something to the public that is less than ready and claim the laurels of being first out but take the rough when it visibly sucks in public ( WOASE prime example ) *OR* sit on it until it is totally bug free ( unrealistic ) 'OR' somewhere between A and b.

Blah blah snip propaganda. Get over it and next time read properly Magnetic. Bread and circusses mate.

Neither you or Gary_C have any idea about the internal state of the AmigaOS4 project, or what priorities they have set. However suffice to say you have to admit if they released something that crashed when a mouse was moved on the desktop they would get burned in hell by you guys :-) This is, dear Magnetic, what I am pointing out to you.

The reason they have not released a public Beta is that they are not, and may never, run a public Beta, and certainly never claim its a final product, unlike some of the more fanatical and stupid "camp" members of the blue team did with MorphOS.

READ IT PROPERLY BEFORE FLAMING ME NEXT TIME!

[elendil]

@Dietmar...

You really should write Hollywood action movies, you know

Here's a toast for a good laugh. Thanks.

Sincerely,

-Kenneth Straarup.

[TheMagicM]

For having a pre-April Pegasos board and MOS 1.3...it sure does run ALOT better then my A3k did..only time it (MOS 1.3) crashes is when I experiment to see if some old Amiga programs work with it.     Other then that, its stable as hell, and VERY fast.

Pegasos/MOS is the future..  YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!

[jeffimix]

No DaveP, they CAN'T release it, they are still working on the low level drivers, not because they decided to be wierd in the way they go about it, but because the old OS was so insanely mixed with it's hardware, besides the multitude of assembly code they had to rewrite, they have to 'unhook' everything from the old chips, no mroe agnus, denise, paula, gary or whatever. The low level stuff has gotta be hardest because they really are porting the original OS.

[Rogue]

DaveP:
OTOH they might have saved themselves from a lot off troll-slam crap from the fanatics.

To be honest, the trolls don't matter :-) Trolls are a general annoyance especially to those that are their target, but nothing more.

What does matter is the person that buys AmigaOS 4 and expects a well-rounded, stable and finished product. That is what we are trying to achieve.

Trolls, please fire away ;-)

( although lack of application space crash protection is still annoying ).

We are planning to provide a special kernel to developers that has exactly this feature. It is mostly unsuitable for the general user since it will make life very hard for most existing applications, but for those that want to test and try their development on a kernel with isolated address spaces, this will be both a testing aid as well as a means to  introduce this feature in the not-too-distant future.

Having said this, OS 4 has the permanent enforcer running because of its memory subsystem (featured in the upcoming CAM edition), and general stability improvements by write-protecting application code and ro-data.

You can also allocate memory as non-public (i.e. just ommit the MEMF_PUBLIC flag) when appropriate; this will later on shield your application data from outside access.

Finally, application stack will be allocated into a special segment that has holes between the different stacks that are access protected, so that a program running out of stack space first gets its own stack enlarged (up to a defined maximum), and runaways that just go into an endless recursion and eventually exhaust their maximum share of stack space wil get hit over the head.

(Hey, did I mention that all of the above also applies to 68k programs? :-) )

[gary_c]

Neither you or Gary_C have any idea about the internal state of the AmigaOS4 project, or what priorities they have set. However suffice to say you have to admit if they released something that crashed when a mouse was moved on the desktop they would get burned in hell by you guys

No, Dave, you must be confusing me with somebody else. I've never flamed about AmigaOS4. I recognize that it's a tough job and the Hyperion staff and others working on it are doing what looks like a great job to bring it along as they have. The criticisms I've had are about Amiga, Inc. management, not the coders of AOS. I could ask you for URLs where I was critical of AOS4, but I'll save you the trouble of looking; to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any. I have argued with you about your idea that Hyperion held back on releasing an early beta of AOS4, but I haven't knocked the OS itself; in fact I acknowledge that in some ways it is ahead of MOS development and it'll be a challenge for MOS to match it in those departments.

-- gary_c

[Rogue]

I received a mail from someone with the topic "Stack Space" as a result from posting here, but there was a false sender on the mail, so I cannot reply.

If possible, could the sender mail me again, with an intact From: please :-)

[CodeSmith]

@redrum:

I had the pleasure of meeting quite a few people so far, Wayne, Targhan, greenboy, bbrv(both), downix, kermit, codesmith and others. Very nice people i must say.

Hey thanks :-)  You're allright too.  I mostly hung around the C64 crowd (Jens, Jeri, Joe Torre, etc) and drank Ben Hermans' margaritas  :-D  The Genesi crew seemed horribly busy all the time, so I only got a chance to chat with you, Downix, Greenboy and Neko.  I would've liked to say hi to Bill Buck, but every time I looked at him he seemed to be coordinating something and I didn't want to interrupt (or does he always look like that?  :-P )  That was definitely a fun show, I'm looking forward to going again next year.