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Offline downix

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2008, 02:19:17 PM »
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Piru wrote:
@StormLord
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I think in INTEGER mulithreaded operations we must be at about the same speed, but in video encodings like H.264 and renderings I'm about 2x faster..
maybe thats because of 4 altivec units that my machine has..(2 altivecs per cpu)

That's it, most likely. AltiVec (especially in 7447/8) is still better than vector units in x86 class machines. Dual G4 is pretty formidable with sw that has good altivec support. The more CPU bound the task is, the better G4 and altivec does (that is G4 doesn't have ultrafast frontside bus and altivec can easily get starved, x86 are tons faster with highly memory intensive tasks).

I always found the PowerPC's FSB always the achilees heel of the design.  It always came down to CPU-bound tasks vs non-CPU-bound tasks for performance.  If I were PPC's controlling execs a few years back, I'd have worked with AMD to bring Hypertransport to the PowerPC, with an integrated DDR RAM controller, similar to how the early Opterons worked.  but, opportunities missed leaves new ones ahead, right?
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Offline Agafaster

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2008, 02:20:42 PM »
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Piru wrote:
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Is there any chance of the sparc (any version of it) running Amiga OS

no


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Offline Agafaster

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2008, 02:23:11 PM »
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JJ wrote:
You cant even compare different genrations of the same  processor family by MHZ.  MHZ is the most pointless indicator of chip performace of chips thers is. Unless you are comparing chips of eexactly the same architecture.  Obivously 50mhz 030 is faster than a 25mhz 030.  But you cant compare it against anything else by the MHZ


Although saying that, I do recall a 'rule of thumb' that a PPC of a certain clock could perform around 2x the equivalently clocked contemporary Pentium. I guess that'd be the PIII cf. the G3 though...
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Offline downix

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2008, 02:23:36 PM »
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Piru wrote:
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What video cards are you using in the two machines?

What gfxcard has to do with H.264 encoding or renderings?

I have an H.264 decoder in my video system here.

*edit, should specify*

It's a video decoder card I'm working on, in FPGA, plugged into one of my PCI ports, based on the newly open sourced MIT code.
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Offline Krusher

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2008, 02:28:05 PM »
A decoder is not an encoder..

Altough there are hardware based h.264 encoders. And with newer gfx cards it's possible to use the raw power of the graphics chip for other purposes then generating images.
 

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2008, 02:31:47 PM »
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
Quote

JJ wrote:
You cant even compare different genrations of the same  processor family by MHZ.  MHZ is the most pointless indicator of chip performace of chips thers is. Unless you are comparing chips of eexactly the same architecture.  Obivously 50mhz 030 is faster than a 25mhz 030.  But you cant compare it against anything else by the MHZ


Although saying that, I do recall a 'rule of thumb' that a PPC of a certain clock could perform around 2x the equivalently clocked contemporary Pentium. I guess that'd be the PIII cf. the G3 though...



No, that would be against the Pentium4 which had very long (22 stage?) pipelines, so that very high clock speeds could be achieved, at the expense of work that could be done per clock cycle. It was a strategy based on the idea that transistor switching speeds would increase dramatically in a short space of time... this did not happen and they have currently topped out at around ~3Ghz.

AMD and Motorola opted for shorter pipelines, which resulted in lower clock speeds but more work gets done per cycle... With the Core2 architecture Intel have adopted the same approach, and brought with them all the good stuff from the P4 (ie great branch predictors and macroop fusion, etc)... (and borrowed all the good ideas of the Athlon64 and the PIII too)...


Offline downix

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2008, 02:37:01 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
Quote

JJ wrote:
You cant even compare different genrations of the same  processor family by MHZ.  MHZ is the most pointless indicator of chip performace of chips thers is. Unless you are comparing chips of eexactly the same architecture.  Obivously 50mhz 030 is faster than a 25mhz 030.  But you cant compare it against anything else by the MHZ


Although saying that, I do recall a 'rule of thumb' that a PPC of a certain clock could perform around 2x the equivalently clocked contemporary Pentium. I guess that'd be the PIII cf. the G3 though...



No, that would be against the Pentium4 which had very long (22 stage?) pipelines, so that very high clock speeds could be achieved, at the expense of work that could be done per clock cycle. It was a strategy based on the idea that transistor switching speeds would increase dramatically in a short space of time... this did not happen and they have currently topped out at around ~3Ghz.

AMD and Motorola opted for shorter pipelines, which resulted in lower clock speeds but more work gets done per cycle... With the Core2 architecture Intel have adopted the same approach, and brought with them all the good stuff from the P4 (ie great branch predictors and macroop fusion, etc)... (and borrowed all the good ideas of the Athlon64 and the PIII too)...


With the irony being that Intel's next-gen chips are going back to the classic P4 methodology...
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Offline bloodline

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2008, 02:48:56 PM »
Quote

downix wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
Quote

JJ wrote:
You cant even compare different genrations of the same  processor family by MHZ.  MHZ is the most pointless indicator of chip performace of chips thers is. Unless you are comparing chips of eexactly the same architecture.  Obivously 50mhz 030 is faster than a 25mhz 030.  But you cant compare it against anything else by the MHZ


Although saying that, I do recall a 'rule of thumb' that a PPC of a certain clock could perform around 2x the equivalently clocked contemporary Pentium. I guess that'd be the PIII cf. the G3 though...



No, that would be against the Pentium4 which had very long (22 stage?) pipelines, so that very high clock speeds could be achieved, at the expense of work that could be done per clock cycle. It was a strategy based on the idea that transistor switching speeds would increase dramatically in a short space of time... this did not happen and they have currently topped out at around ~3Ghz.

AMD and Motorola opted for shorter pipelines, which resulted in lower clock speeds but more work gets done per cycle... With the Core2 architecture Intel have adopted the same approach, and brought with them all the good stuff from the P4 (ie great branch predictors and macroop fusion, etc)... (and borrowed all the good ideas of the Athlon64 and the PIII too)...


With the irony being that Intel's next-gen chips are going back to the classic P4 methodology...


Well... err... only as far as I can see... The silverthorn, with its simple in order pipeline... but that is with good reason, i.e. to get a small die and low power consumption so it can compete with the ARM...

Offline Agafaster

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2008, 03:32:48 PM »
Quote

downix wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
Quote

JJ wrote:
You cant even compare different genrations of the same  processor family by MHZ.  MHZ is the most pointless indicator of chip performace of chips thers is. Unless you are comparing chips of eexactly the same architecture.  Obivously 50mhz 030 is faster than a 25mhz 030.  But you cant compare it against anything else by the MHZ


Although saying that, I do recall a 'rule of thumb' that a PPC of a certain clock could perform around 2x the equivalently clocked contemporary Pentium. I guess that'd be the PIII cf. the G3 though...



No, that would be against the Pentium4 which had very long (22 stage?) pipelines, so that very high clock speeds could be achieved, at the expense of work that could be done per clock cycle. It was a strategy based on the idea that transistor switching speeds would increase dramatically in a short space of time... this did not happen and they have currently topped out at around ~3Ghz.

AMD and Motorola opted for shorter pipelines, which resulted in lower clock speeds but more work gets done per cycle... With the Core2 architecture Intel have adopted the same approach, and brought with them all the good stuff from the P4 (ie great branch predictors and macroop fusion, etc)... (and borrowed all the good ideas of the Athlon64 and the PIII too)...


With the irony being that Intel's next-gen chips are going back to the classic P4 methodology...


...but maybe for different reasons - other than the cynical attempt to Ramp up the Clock speed for Marketing to Dullards(tm) purposes
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Offline downix

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2008, 04:22:46 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Well... err... only as far as I can see... The silverthorn, with its simple in order pipeline... but that is with good reason, i.e. to get a small die and low power consumption so it can compete with the ARM...

Not the Silverthorn, their next-gen Xeons seem to be abandoning the Core-like system and going backwards to P4-style.  I think a bad move from all angles.
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Offline StormLord

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2008, 04:51:05 PM »
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If someone has any cross platform benchmarking tools they would like me to run, I would be happy to and will publish the results. (I also have a 3Ghz P4 as well


even crossplatform benchmarking can't show the real difference and that because most of them are optimised and builted for one type of machines and just crossed compiled to the other, instead of rewriting the program from scratch to take care different architectures.. also different architectures can have very different results in different tests
Example: try to run distributed net OGR to that single 1.5Ghz G4 and OGR on that 3200AMD, both cores are written from scratch for the specific CPUs , results:
G4 will be about 3-4x faster than the athlon, but that is not true in everyday tasks performance
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2008, 05:16:18 PM »
Quote

StormLord wrote:
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If someone has any cross platform benchmarking tools they would like me to run, I would be happy to and will publish the results. (I also have a 3Ghz P4 as well


even crossplatform benchmarking can't show the real difference and that because most of them are optimised and builted for one type of machines and just crossed compiled to the other, instead of rewriting the program from scratch to take care different architectures.. also different architectures can have very different results in different tests
Example: try to run distributed net OGR to that single 1.5Ghz G4 and OGR on that 3200AMD, both cores are written from scratch for the specific CPUs , results:
G4 will be about 3-4x faster than the athlon, but that is not true in everyday tasks performance


Which is why I based my statement upon running Logic Pro (called Logic Platinium at the time) on both machines... running 8 tracks on both, and then loading up the effects inserts.

I was a bit gutted at the time, as the Mac had cost me a small fortune... the Athlon64 components didn't cost more than £300 in total including 1 Gig or ram...

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2008, 05:18:51 PM »
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downix wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Well... err... only as far as I can see... The silverthorn, with its simple in order pipeline... but that is with good reason, i.e. to get a small die and low power consumption so it can compete with the ARM...

Not the Silverthorn, their next-gen Xeons seem to be abandoning the Core-like system and going backwards to P4-style.  I think a bad move from all angles.
I already thought it'd be impossible for Intel to make good CPU's.. Now they've come to that same conclusion too :lol:

:-(
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Offline AJCopland

Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2008, 05:54:31 PM »
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
I already thought it'd be impossible for Intel to make good CPU's.. Now they've come to that same conclusion too :lol:

:-(

There were good parts to the Pentium4 they were just outnumbered by the bad!

What they're adding back into the Xeon and Nehalem core designs are things like HyperThreading which can provide impressive performance improvements.

Andy
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Offline Hattig

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2008, 11:42:23 PM »
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Piru wrote:
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What video cards are you using in the two machines?

What gfxcard has to do with H.264 encoding or renderings?


Any modern (current generation) graphics card can offload full HD H.264 decode from the CPU, and assist in encode.

That includes modern integrated chipsets as well. Even Intel's low-power Atom chipset has full HD decode in the chipset (licensed from Imagination, so it's PowerVR 5).
 

Offline Piru

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Re: PPC vs x86 speed/performance comparions?
« Reply #44 from previous page: April 14, 2008, 11:49:53 PM »
@Hattig
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assist in encode.

Oh? Got any links to documentation?