Would you pay €226 for a minimig?

[derringer3]

EUR 226 for an amiga 500+??? Stupidity never ends.
I bought my a500 less than this price, but it was more than 15 years ago. And it is an original commodore.
Maybe if it was the recently demoed Natami or sg like this.
But for a plain a500+, it is robbery.

[ollygd]

From that viewpoint, I understand your reasoning. However, if they only made enough profit to keep their business from hitting the deck, would you still say it was robbery?

[arnljot]

This is interesting.

A lot of people have been posting on the "contacted china, and a batch of minimigs" threads that they'd pay "anyhting" for populated board.

Also the builders indicated that it might be well over €100 for a board, maybe even €200.

I see that many had the expectations to a pro company that they would be able to have bigger runs, lower costs and a more pro finish (casing and psu=. But realistically, they still have their overhead, required warranties (local consumer laws etc) which statistically runs the price up.

I'm going to buy one. Not on this months salary, I've gotten myself another amiga kit. But this year I'd get one. And I'll get it from ACube.

It's steap. But it's at the same time fair. It's the cost of wanting something only 500 people in the world wants, but cant be bothered to build one self.

And as for the DIY aspect of the Minimig. Yes, it's mostly about that. But now I get to build a case, wont I?

It's a nice starter project for one who has only broken things by taking a soldering iron to them

[ollygd]

Bless you, arnljot

[Darrin]

alexh wrote:
They are making a killing at that price, at least 100% profit.

Either they are not making very many (sub 50) or they are getting greedy.

I didnt think a 1.5Mbyte OCS A500 was worth €138, it is absolutely not worth €226

Bloody hell!  If they are only making 100% profit then that's less than the usual retail mark-up.

And don't forget that what you call "profit" also has to pay for service and support (including dead boards).

Fine if you don't like the price, but don't slag off a business for trying to keep it's books out of the red.

[derringer3]

@ollygd:

For me it's overpriced. And excuse me, but i will not support acube or else just cause. Don't care if they got 100% profit or more. It's their business. If they show me a product that offer sg. I will surely buy it.(for exable a minimig which has got aga and can be expand with a simple ppc cpu etc.)
And one more thing, minimig is a good project, a very good and it is only just the work of one man. But for me it is not worth a penny in its current state.

[ollygd]

@derringer3

Well don't buy it then. My argument is that there is a price for manufacturing a product that only 500 people are going to buy. Whether it's overpriced for you personally is irrelevant.  It costs money to develop and the price you pay now is that price.

If you care as to whether the Amiga platform has any future, then you should care very much about a fledgling manufacturer's bottom line, as we, as a community do not have the luxury of a saturated market and billion-dollar manufacturing plants. Quite possibly though, you do not! And that is fine. Why should you? It's just a hobby after all.

I really feel that even those who choose not to buy now because of this "high price" quoted by ACube, should not discourage others from doing so. There are plently of people who I am sure will buy, and they will be the ones to drive the costs down.

If you were smart, you would not slag off this offering, but encourage. Then buy the next model. If you were smart.

[alexh]

Darrin wrote:
Bloody hell!  If they are only making 100% profit then that's less than the usual retail mark-up.

As someone who works in the hardware retail industry, I wish we made more than 100% profit.

50% is good but it is as low as 17% on set-top-boxes.

Darrin wrote:
And don't forget that what you call "profit" also has to pay for service and support (including dead boards).

Touche. I hadn't really thought of that, or insurance, or inventory storage etc.

Darrin wrote:
Fine if you don't like the price, but don't slag off a business for trying to keep it's books out of the red.

I understand, I do. But this is not an ordinary retail venture, Acube do not have any NRE costs to recover. The r&d and even the PCB design was all done for them. All they are doing is effectively offering manufacturing services.

Unfortunately in the post Commodore Amiga era there has always been a temptation for unscrupulous developers to take advantage of the users due to the almost "monopoly" that exists.

[ollygd]

.....Unfortunately in the post Commodore Amiga era there has always been a temptation for unscrupulous developers to take advantage of the users due to the almost "monopoly" that exists.....

This is v true. However, we still need an enthusiastic market to encourage other suppliers to set-up, or we will truly be stuck with a monopoly. As of now - we have no choice - but one thing is for sure - we cannot all keep sitting on the fence as we have for the last 20 years!

[alexh]

I guess you are right. Especially if ACube have said they are considering producing future products should this be a success.

[BodyHammeR]

Fransexy_ wrote:
The one chip MSX, a MSX implementation on a FPGA cost 229 euro

http://www.bazix.nl/press07112006.html

So the price is the same as other old computers FPGA implementations

You forget one thing: Despite their propaganda all over the internets, Bazix does not sell 1ChipMSX'es. There isn't even a 'European 1ChipMSX' in sight. They might actually deliver on their promises from the past few years in a few more months though, but I think most people who really want one already do - I got mine via a fellow MSX user who went to Japan. Damage: 200 euro (incl shipping).

On Topic:

I like the idea of a A500 in FPGA - the small form factor, the ability to load ADF's from SD card, the 'HOW COOL IS THIS?!'-factor, etc. I might buy one in the future, but not for 226 euro...

[Darrin]

alexh wrote:
As someone who works in the hardware retail industry, I wish we made more than 100% profit.

Well, it does vary on the types of products.  I used to own and run two businesses and I'll admit that my margins on electronics were lower than other items.  Clothes were typically the best, while most items I stocked were marked up x2.2.

50% is good but it is as low as 17% on set-top-boxes.

Of course, it also depends on the market size.  I assume that you expected to sell more then a handful of those set-top boxes.  ;-)

Also, you say you were "retail".  There's a difference between the mark-up a manufacturer charges and the mark-up a retailer charges.  In this case, ACube are both manufacturer and retailer.  Also, as they intend to send boards to other companies for sale, they have to maintain a high price in order for the other companies to be able to make a profit on their sales.

So, let's say that ACube really only want to make $50 profit off each board, but the other companies who also want to market the board want to make an additional $25 then ACube themselves have to sell the board at $75 profit whether they want to or not.

Touche. I hadn't really thought of that, or insurance, or inventory storage etc.

Exactly, and it all mounts up.  I often reminded griping customers that I started each month in the red thanks to rent, electricity, telephone, advertising, staff wages, etc.

I understand, I do. But this is not an ordinary retail venture, Acube do not have any NRE costs to recover. The r&d and even the PCB design was all done for them. All they are doing is effectively offering manufacturing services.

True, but they're also risking the cash in doing a production run and that's cash that could be making interest if placed in a savings account or cash that may have been borrowed why generates additional interest that has to be paid back.

At the moment, the true market size is an unknown.  Perhaps if the successfully sell this batch then they will be in a position to more agressively price the next bath.

Unfortunately in the post Commodore Amiga era there has always been a temptation for unscrupulous developers to take advantage of the users due to the almost "monopoly" that exists.

The Amiga has never been a cheap hobby.  :-)

The only way around this is to ecourage the manufacturers and retails we have to stay in the market and then hopefully attract new ones.  As long as we live mostly off the scraps that eBay provice then new development is going to dwindle.

[coldfish]

I understand the sentiments; regarding support for small developers/producers, and agree, mostly.

But, the Minimig really is a niche product, as such it's tethered to a very limited audience.  It was never intended to be a "real" product.

Any viable business would not base its growth on a niche product.  So, even if they sell 0 units, if they're a worthwhile/smart venture it wont "sink" them.

Instead of Minimig in it's present form, what's needed is a "real" retail consumer product with more potential, one that appeals to a wider audience, attracting non-community members and grows the market.

Its silly to expect a tiny niche market to generate business growth, especially one as depleted as the Amiga community.  Nearly all the businesses involved with the community are making the same mistake.

Grow the market, then grow the business.

Unfortunately, I think the market has shrunk beyond the point where it can be revived in any future-viable way.  

So it's an academic argument really. :-(