Ebay CGA to VGA adaptor

[machinehead]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260171667083&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=016

I haven't posted in a long time, but I still use Commodores/Amigas.

I found this on Ebay and thought you might like it. I already have a 15 to 9 pin DB adaptor to use this with my 128D.

I also have the Amiga 23 to 15 pin adaptor to try it with an Amiga.

I'll let you know how it works after it arrives.

Regards,
Dave H.

[adonay]

COOL i would buy one of these if americans knew there were other continents out there and had the intelligence to shipp too those places, then they would earn more money..

[machinehead]

adonay,

They do ship international orders. So I guess they know where to find Norway or Sweden.

You didn't read the shipping information before making your inflammatory remark.

I don't have personal or financial interest in this seller, I just wanted to point out an item that may be of use to some of us.
Don't worry, I won't make this mistake again.

I wouldn't want to offend anyone from Norway.

     

[terminator4]

Pls do.  I wonder if it would work with the amigas (ECS/AGA not just OCS) on all resolutions.

[adonay]

.

You didn't read the shipping information before making your inflammatory remark.

Woops my apologies ... I have some ebay pluggin for mozilla and seems tells only the quoted shipping.. I wont be trusting that one again ...

Then for the email....

[machinehead]

As for the converter, this is from the first line of the description:

This multi-format RGB video converter unit is a special converter for upgrading the old 15Khz RGB CGA video signals from sources like gaming boards to high-resolution VGA output on CRT monitor, LCD/TFT panel, projector or HDTV set with VGA input.

Why Commodore stuck with such a crappy video standard is not suprising considering the way the company died. (Of internal injuries)


I'll let you know how it works after it arrives and is tested.

Dave H.

[keropi]

it has been discussed on EAB, they work but are 16bit quality.

[jkonstan]

Is this scan RGB to VGA doubler/scaler good enough for Amiga use and worth $92 ($US) ?

Alex always does a nice job of commenting on the RGB to VGA adaptors. Maybe, he will add some comments on this one as well.






 :-)

[jkonstan]

Can you post the EAIB link that provides more detail on this RGB/CGA to VGA adaptor ?

 :-)

[keropi]

HERE
though they are different, they are based on the same design I think... unless someone finds the real tech.data of this one and gives us a better description
look at post #94

[alexh]

This is the Cypress CM397

http://www.cypuk.com/cyp_techpage.php?product=259&&parent=

Although they say CGA to VGA adapter, they are actually Analog RGB to VGA adapters. CGA is not an analog video format it is a 4-bit digital (TTL) signal.

They are in theory 16-bit scandoublers, but in practice (because they resample the analog signals) they are much worse than that, closer to 12-bit, and so are ok for OCS/ECS but not really suitable for AGA screens (unless you want to loose colour information).

$90 is a good price, but it is not the cheapest scandoubler available.

Like all of scandoublers on the market they are quite expensive for what is actually inside them.

[machinehead]

So if they are all the same and there are cheaper ones, can you point us to them? Being this is the only one (I could find) that actually exists I thought $90.00 wasn't too bad.
 
Even AGA is 16 bit "at best" due to the "custom chip set" and all that, more like 12 bits. I never used AGA with my A1200 anyway, it wouldn't work on my 1084. Man what a frustrating adventure, having AGA with that awful monitor.

How many games used AGA? Maybe 10 good ones and 20 others.
ECS? Thousands. OCS? Thousands as well.

And what exactly is inside a scan doubler? I opened a "Toast Scan" and was rather impressed by the complexity of the circuit. Not something I would want to solder up out in the shed. A C128 memory hack is the most I want to tackle.

Don't forget the "Toast Scan" is $160.00 when and if it is re-released.
Software Hut says there is a critical part unavaliable that is causing the delay.
So actually, a scan doubler is quite complex and because of the small market, are somewhat expensive.

Your statements are rather vague and don't provide a reason why this product is worse or better or the same as other products. Who cares about AGA anyway?

I am the Guinea Pig anyway and I said I will report on my findings.
 
Thank You.
Dave H.

[alexh]

machinehead wrote:
Even AGA is 16 bit "at best" due to the "custom chip set" and all that, more like 12 bits.

No it isnt. It's 24-bits. The old Amiga Chipset (OCS/ECS) is 12-bits.

And what exactly is inside a scan doubler? I opened a "Toast Scan" and was rather impressed by the complexity of the circuit.

The ToastScan is a VERY VERY old design, it is overly complex and uses lots of discrete components:

o ADC (Analog to digital converter) which samples the RGB out of the Amiga back into a digital signal
o CPLD (Programmable Logic Device) the core logic of the scandoubler, programmed to see the 15KHz horizontal & vertical sync signals and copy the RGB digital data into RAMS and read them back out at the appropriate timing for 31KHz.
o RAM (Usually 2x Frames of data for the Flicker Fixer, 2x Lines for the Scandoubler, sometimes expensive 2-port RAM)
o DAC (Digital to Analog converter) to convert the scandoubled 31KHz digital RGB signals back into Analog.

Today all of these parts (RAM, DAC, CPLD) are all inside one very cheap chip.

machinehead wrote:
Don't forget the "Toast Scan" is $160.00 when and if it is re-released. Software Hut says there is a critical part unavaliable that is causing the delay.

There will be no more ToastScan (Indivision) devices. The people who make them (Jens Schoenfeld) has used all his MACH (CPLD) parts, it is difficult/impossible to get more.

machinehead wrote:
So actually, a scan doubler is quite complex and because of the small market, are somewhat expensive.

Not completely true. Ok, a fully made up Amiga specifc scandoubler has a small market, but scandoublers in general have a huge market.

There is a scandoubler in every LCD-TV, millions sold everyday and that makes the chips that go inside them cost almost nothing. Less than $3 each.

machinehead wrote:
So if they are all the same and there are cheaper ones, can you point us to them?

I didnt say they were all the same.

A guy called Roy R. Justus was selling external 16-bit Flicker Fixing scandoublers (equivalent to the Cypress one) for $48 each, but that was before the US dollar crash.

http://www.miba51.com/CoCo_VGA_Adpater.html

machinehead wrote:
Being this is the only one (I could find) that actually exists I thought $90.00 wasn't too bad.

It's not the only one, just google and you'll find at least 10 and I said $90 was a good price.

[machinehead]

The point of my first post was to point out a possible solution for a plug in device that people could use for their Amiga 1000, 500, 2000, 600, and 1200. I wasn't prepared to enter into a debate with someone who is so negitive. But what the hell?

I'll give you I confused ECS with AGA,:roll: But name 5 applications that make use of AGA, 10 decent games? Just look at all the apps and support the Amiga community got with AGA!
Besides, anyone who has tried ECS with a scan doubler will agree that it looks great.

I didn't ask how old the Toast Scan was, I just said it is complex and I stand by that remark. And VERY VERY old? You mean like an Amiga 1200?

And then you say this about the avaliability and cost of a scandoubler:

"Not true, there is a scandoubler in every LCD-TV, millions sold everyday and that makes the chips cost almost nothing. Less than $3 each."

How would I interface this "$3.00" chip to the RBG output of an Amiga 2000? How come no one is ripping these out and selling them on Ebay? If I could make this work on an Amiga, you can Bet Your Ass that it would cost you more than $3.00.

And old or not, it is a complex circuit. I think (I KNOW) the average Hack (Me included) would have a hard time duplicating such a device. Isn't that the reason the market is flooded with scan doublers for the Amiga? :shrug:

"There will be no more ToastScan devices." GASP! The dreaded NO comment! (Seen so often on Amiga.org)
Really?
http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/hardware/accelerators/apollo_scandoublers.html&cart_id=6851270_82417
Please contact Software Hut and tell them to take down the Pre-Order Toast Scan page.

Good job pointing out how I'm WRONG, like everyone here who dares make a suggestion.
I see a lot of people explaining why something won't work, and going into great detail about why it won't, but they never seem to offer a solution. That's one of the reasons I quit messing with this site for so long.

And what did you not understand about me already buying one and offering to post a report about how it works, good or bad.

I am willing to roll the dice with a $90.00 scan doubler, already put together and in a box that, with an Amiga "VGA"  adaptor will plug and play out of the box.
We all know that Amigans have rolled the dice on MUCH more than $90.00.

And despite your negitivity, I will post the results so that others may benefit if they so choose.

Search for solutions, find ways to do what can't be done. Reach out to others offering support, not criticism.
Anyone who can offer support to the Amiga community should be commended, not stepped on.

Sheesh.:pint:

PS I did a search for Scan Doubler and scandoubler. Guess how many I found FOR SALE? The one I've already bought.
Go figure.....

[jkonstan]

Thank you for risking the $90 to test the CM397 scan doubler.
http://www.cypuk.com/cyp_techpage.php?product=259&&parent=

I have held off on buying one due to possible video performance issues; thus, I will be looking foward to your evaluation of the CM397 video performance when connected to an Amiga & VGA monitor.

 :-)