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Offline HenryCaseTopic starter

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Mobile ITX
« on: December 22, 2007, 11:30:44 PM »
Just read about the mobile ITX form factor that VIA are bringing out. All I can say is, I WANT IT! Check it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile-ITX
http://www.epiacenter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1108

YouTube vids:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mobile+ITX&search=Search
In particular:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjFGmr-AbHE

Just imagine a wearable PC built with this platform, maybe using something like this for the display:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYVVpvieXSs
And something like these for the input:
http://roleepolee.com/products/roleepolee/?rp1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdDRGr64TQ&NR=1

Cyberpunk/geek heaven! :-D

I had thought about a wearable Minimig, but that's a little while away.

Anyone else like the whole wearable computer thing, or is it just me?
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Offline cecilia

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 02:35:25 AM »
people have been playing around with wearable computer elements.

That includes sensors placed in ones clothing that are connected to your friends cell phones. they call up your shirt (so to speak) and you can be sent a massage. or maybe your shirt lights up......the possibilities are endless.

it's also a good way to monitor a person with a medical condition. the sensors in the clothing can send messages to a friends cell phone. If the heart rate or temperature change, your cell phone immediatly notifies you.

it's a good way to keep track of granny while at work.

or something
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Offline HenryCaseTopic starter

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 12:40:36 PM »
@cecilia

Those are some great benefits you've mentioned there. My favourite benefit to wearable PCs has to be augmented reality.

Need to know what AR is, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Eycccww6k&NR=1

Coolness! :-D
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Offline odin

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 01:29:21 PM »
I wonder how much energy it consumes compared to conventional portable devices.

Offline HenryCaseTopic starter

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2007, 03:10:40 PM »
Quote
odin wrote:
I wonder how much energy it consumes compared to conventional portable devices.


Check out this video (skip to 2:30 for the power consumption bit):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tN1Mo7bwgE
Around 8-10 hours on the device shown, and that has a bigger screen than my solution, along with a regular HD rather than something solid state.

Another way of looking at it is by examining the CPU. The reference design uses VIA's C7-M processor running at 1GHz, which draws under 12 W TDP (Total Design Power). VIA already have other CPUs capable of running at 5W TDP for 1GHz speeds, and this is all at 90nm fabrication. See here:
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/eden_ulv/
If they moved to a more modern fabrication process the power consumption would be even less.

For comparison, this is the main processor of the iPhone (running at 412Mhz):
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1176.html
As far as I can tell, maximum power consumption of the CPU is 279mW, or 0.279W, which is very impressive. It's rumoured that Apple may change the iPhone to a x86 architecture like Intel's Menlow or Moorestown. Silverthorne (CPU of the Menlow architecture) runs at around 0.55W, which shows you what shrinking production processes (0.45nm) can do.

I believe it would be possible to comfortably run a mobile ITX device off the battery for around a day using current tech, even if it does draw more power than similar tech.
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 09:03:10 PM »
And there was me thinking the market was finally up to ditching the x86 millstone.
Plus embedded Windows... pure crap. PalmOS has always been gazillion times more user-friendly.

No, this is a traditional turn in the wrong direction.
Come on ppl! We are here on Amiga.org, a site dedicated to a machine ahead of it's time, in terms of getting the max out of hard- and software, and dedication to user friendliness (whether the user is a die-hard programmer, or someone who uses the computer for the first time).
Be an Amigan, save your pennies/efforts, and just avoid this.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 09:23:25 PM »
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
And there was me thinking the market was finally up to ditching the x86 millstone.


Not only is the x86 not going away... it (well x86-64) looks set to dominate and replace all other architectures in the not too distant future. The advantages of a common ISA are just too great.

Quote

Plus embedded Windows... pure crap. PalmOS has always been gazillion times more user-friendly.


Windows Mobile isn't my choice... I used to have an Old HP 4150 iPAQ... which was WinCE powered... not that much fun.

So one doesn't need to use it any more... I use MacOSX on my PDA :-)

Quote

No, this is a traditional turn in the wrong direction.
Come on ppl! We are here on Amiga.org, a site dedicated to a machine ahead of it's time, in terms of getting the max out of hard- and software, and dedication to user friendliness (whether the user is a die-hard programmer, or someone who uses the computer for the first time).
Be an Amigan, save your pennies/efforts, and just avoid this.


But this makes more powerful hardware cheaper and smaller... these are both attributes which the Amiga used to embrace?! We should embrace them and not fear them. :-)

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 10:06:20 PM »
What? You mean this is new? Tell me, what's so new about this?
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 10:12:04 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
But this makes more powerful hardware cheaper and smaller... these are both attributes which the Amiga used to embrace?! We should embrace them and not fear them. :-)
This is not more powerful and cheaper hardware. There's a healthy competition going on in embedded systems market, and the x86 can spoil that all, because of lame software houses.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2007, 12:58:34 AM »
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
But this makes more powerful hardware cheaper and smaller... these are both attributes which the Amiga used to embrace?! We should embrace them and not fear them. :-)
This is not more powerful and cheaper hardware. There's a healthy competition going on in embedded systems market, and the x86 can spoil that all, because of lame software houses.


Healthy competition? I think you'll find it difficult to find a SPARC or a MIPS or even a PPC PDA... I look around and any device I can buy uses an ARM CPU... a CPU that has stagnated due to lack of competition... My PDA of 3 years ago used a 400Mhz XScale... My iPhone uses a 400Mhz ARM... 3 years without any performance gain... bringing the x86 into this market will only help to spur on development... and make for better hardware.

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2007, 09:56:57 AM »
Hm, ok, maybe I'm a few years behind I must confess :oops:
Still I do not see x86 making a difference... Besides, megaherzes are not the Amiga way, you remember? ;-)
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2007, 11:33:43 AM »
Quote

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Hm, ok, maybe I'm a few years behind I must confess :oops:
Still I do not see x86 making a difference...

Well, no one can predict the future, if I could I'd be a billionare :-)   But bringing the x86 to the mobile Market has the potential to really shake things up and get some serious technology out there!
Quote

Besides, megaherzes are not the Amiga way, you remember? ;-)


Sadly you are correct, which probably explains the MacBook Pro sitting on my desk now.

Offline Dan

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2007, 12:15:03 AM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Anyone else like the whole wearable computer thing, or is it just me?

I have followed wearable computer development for  10 years now and I must say that nothing much is happening. Its still the same old linuxusers running strippeddown linux variants.

What is needed completely new UI
Preferably one that uses sound just as much as it uses text and graphics. Otherwise your $2000-rigg will be smashed when you stumble around trying to focus on your HMD.
The UI should also adopt to different modes off usage like
-audio only
-audio and wristwatchlike display
-audio and hmd
-full desktopscreen
etc

Now the big question is when we will be able to do this in AROS running on a mobileITX or similar?:-P
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Offline HenryCaseTopic starter

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2007, 11:32:42 PM »
@Speelgoedmannetje
x86 is not the devil. Do you dislike the architecture due to its place in history or for more technical reasons?

Having said that, building a wearable Minimig is my personal dream for the device, here's hoping this becomes a reality.

@Dan
I haven't been following wearable computing closely for 10 years like you, but I do know progress has been slow. The main barriers to more commercial devices (IMO) are:

1. Getting enough computing power in a small form factor (now solved with mobile-ITX).
2. Increasing battery life (bottleneck in many mobile devices, progress very slow but power efficiency making some improvements).
3. Building suitable input and output devices.

Point 3 is most interesting. I liked your ideas about a new UI, never thought of using a wristwatch as small display when HUD not suitable. When using HUD, maybe you could use the wristwatch surface as a touchpad (i.e. mouse replacement)?

For typing, I thought of a solution, though I'm not sure if it would take off. To type, you would wear gloves (wouldn't need any computer hardware in the gloves, but they would need to be of one fixed colour, green let's say). Wearing the HUD, you look down at your hands. The HUD device would have a camera built in, and when it saw the green gloves it would bring up the keyboard interface on screen as a augmented reality object. Typing would work as normal, though sounds would have to be added to give feedback when a key was successfully pressed. When typing was finished, you could look up to take away the virtual keyboard.

I think this keyboard solution would only be suitable for people when they were sitting down. If people tried to type like this whilst walking along it wouldn't be long before the term 'techno-zombie' would be in widespread use!
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Offline Dan

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Re: Mobile ITX
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 11:31:21 PM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Having said that, building a wearable Minimig is my personal dream for the device, here's hoping this becomes a reality.

Thats an idea.
Another idea is that the http://gumstix.com/ needs a video capable companion for those telnet/SSH-sessions on the run.Using the gumstix as a personal wearable server like the one intel experimented with and the minimig as a I/O-device.
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