New x86 "accelerator" for Classic Amiga?

[DrValkyer]

Amiga is today in the situation where it cannot be used as a main computer even for simple general stuff, like browsing Youtube, using some non-amiga applications and so.  Of course I understand this; Classic Amiga HW is too slow for some modern applications or porting them to AOS is impossible/difficult.

So I got this little idea, dunno if you guys have already talked about it but here it is anyway, why not use x86 hw as a accelerator for classic Amiga?  And no, I haven't smoked pot recently or drunk alcohol, thank you!  :-D

[color=800000]"WTF? A new x86 turboboard for classic? Insane! :pissed: "[/color]

No, I mean that we could use old/new x86-PC as a server for x86 programs and then only the GUI+graphics were drawn in AmigaOS like in x-windows system.  So for example we could use PC with linux + x-windows-server and modified x-windows-client on Amiga.

[color=800000]"Huh, why not use VNC / RemoteDesktop?"[/color]

Because it sucks! I want feel programs like they were native applications, not some mirrored mess in one little window. This could be achieved by using special "launch"-icons on workbench and special x-windowing-system.  

For example if I launched a special-icon (pointing to a x86-program on PC) on my workbench then it would launch a x-window-client on Amiga which itself would tell the PC to run this program and mirror it's GUI+graphics back to the Amiga by using x-windows.  When we add a twoway-networkfilesystem to this I could use Amiga files from PC program just like the PC program were running on Amiga natively.

One usage scenario could be for example to use Gimp on Linux.  At first I just clicked my Gimp-icon on workbench and then the linux-PC would start running the Gimp and I could see the Gimp GUI on my Amiga.  For next I could save the image manipulated in Gimp and save it to the AmigaHD via NFS and voi'la I would see a new image file on my Amiga machine!

In this way one could run virtually any application which exits on Linux/Unix. And think about possibility to use small ITX-PC-boards as an embedded "turbo-board" on your AmigaTower!  The small ITX board could be even clued into your empty Zorro / PCI slot :-D  and you would feel like it were a real accelerator board! :-)

[color=800000]"Ok, so what about the connection and it's bandwith problems?"[/color]

At first the x-windowing + PC-controlling could be done via normal ethernet network but this may cause problems.  I am not sure but I think that the networking on Amiga is not fast enough to be able to carry realtime-graphics even on local-network (this true?), so this would make the graphics to slowdown and jam and for example browsing internet wouldn't be so smooth anymore.  Of course a special HW-link (Amiga-PC) could be build for this and all x-windows + stuff would be transfered via this fast link.

[color=800000]"Ok, so what if it were possible? Why not just use directly the damn PC?"[/color]

Hey! I am making here the assumption that one wants to use Amiga as a main workstation at any cost, also slaving CoreDuo-PCs would be funny. What do you think?  :-?  :-D

[Zac67]

Sorry, I completely fail to see the point.

Why not use WinUAE as a start, so in addition to the fantastic speed you'd get a great RTG card for free - and wouldn't have to rewrite all your software to enable the graphical client/server idea.

The more you develop this idea of yours, the more you end up with an Amiga on a PCI board sitting in a Wintel PC. Actually, most / all Amiga hardware can be emulated by software at higher speed, so you'd optimize the PCI card to nothing. Then you end up with WinUAE.

The point is, there's no rational in using physical Amiga hardware. It's the fun of it.

[skurk]

Sorry for running off-topic, but your headline ignited my X86 accelerator idea again:

In short, imagine an Amiga accelerator.  But instead of a, say, 68060, there's an X86 emulating it.

Bloody hell, I'll build it myself one day, if no-one else does.

[bloodline]

Hi, sorry to be patronizing but you have heard of AROS right?

[Piru]

X-Window system and linux apps won't give any any "amiga feeling" anyway, so why not just run linux on a PC directly?

Heck use Keyrah and you can even use your amiga keyboard... ;-)

[DrValkyer]

Sorry, I completely fail to see the point. Why not use WinUAE ...

Hell yes this is unrational idea :-D , but arent't you with the WinUAE/AROS in the same situation?  

The point is (if there is any) to be able to run x86 software on Amiga "smoothly" like they were native applications, can you do this inside WinUAE?

If windowing system were build in right way I dont think that you should need to rewrite target-programs at all only heavily modified x-server + x-client but like piru said the whole x-windowing probably wouldn't look AOS anymore.

And yes I have tried AROS a long time ago when it still were buggy (nowadays different story).

I just don't see a point using WinUAE + task switching because then I would prefer to use two desktops at same time (heh like I am doing it with Amiga right now). :lol:

[DrValkyer]

In short, imagine an Amiga accelerator. But instead of a, say, 68060, there's an X86 emulating it.

Sounds interesting :-)
Do you mean that you would attach PC somehow to the Expansion Port of Amiga?

[xeron]

No, he means a turbocard like the blizzard or apollo cards, where the CPU is a cheap x86 chip. All you'd need is a boot-rom on the board that loads a 68k emulator and then boots the amiga and you'd have the fastest classic amiga ever.

The downside is that the glue logic to attach an x86 chip to the amiga would be really hard to do (as far as i'm aware; i'm no hardware designer).

[skurk]

Ah, you beat me to it.  But yeah, that's the idea.

One could of course use some FPGA logic to interface the whole thing.

You could also have all the fastmem you want on the accelerator board, as there are no 24-bit address limitations in that jungle.  The RAM speed could also exceed the traditional by far.

Someone build it, I'll buy it - or else I'll have to start experimenting with an old A500 and my Xilinx II dev board.

And that ain't going to be pretty.

[alexh]

You've gotta love the fantasies that people have on this board.

[skurk]

Hey, a little daydreaming never hurt anyone. ;-)

[DrValkyer]

Oh, what about for starters to just connect expansion port to the PCI-bus of PC (emulate 68k) and so make a protype and dev-platform. For example by using PCI-FPGA board,  like Dragon (pretty expensive 300$,hmm heard that name somewhere... the most likely Dragon named turbocard we are ever going to get :-P)

[A1260]

@skurk

sounds like a very interesting idea, start your own topic and many strange things can happen

[Jethro_Tull]

Nice idea! But it's far from original.  It's already been done on A500, not as an accelerator, but as a hardware emulator;

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=333

The idea was to load MS-DOS and Windows using the NEC version of an 8080 on board, thus effectively having a fully fledged PC inside the Amiga.  A friend of mine at school had one and it worked beautifully.  Of course, there was no GUI integration as you envisaged.  

Still, with the low power cheap Geode and a custom northbridge I believe it's duable!  

[skurk]

Mmmnnnooo, that's not what I were thinking.  I'm thinking of an accel that replaces the existing CPU - not a software-activated/passive unit.  You are right, they both are mounted inside the computer, but that's about where the similarities end, IMO.

Anyway, nevermind my rambling. I'm not too good with words.