To buy or not to buy...

[Faerytale]

Its time for the whdload team to make wdload os4 freindly
If its possible

[bloodline]

motorollin wrote:
@bloodline
Why shouldn't it? OS3.x is a 68k OS and can access a real PPC processor, so why shouldn't a PPC OS be able to access the real 68k processor?

Actually OS3.x can't access the PPC, which is why you need to have another kernel running in parallel, i.e. PowerUP or WarpOS. Those two old solutions were terrible, the currenlt OS4 approach (which is similar to the original MacOS PPC/68k approach) is a much better idea!

@Akiko
Hmmm, that may affect my decision about whether to upgrade, since I use my Amiga mainly as a classic games machine.

If I were to be mainly using my machine for games... I'd not bother with either a PPC or an OS upgrade... it yould be more fun to get a couple of second hand A500's instead and run all the machines at the same time :-D

[motorollin]

bloodline wrote:
Actually OS3.x can't access the PPC, which is why you need to have another kernel running in parallel, i.e. PowerUP or WarpOS.

Ahhh I see. For some reason I always thought that PUP/WOS were optional extras. I understand your point now. By that reasoning, could a 68k kernel run alongside OS4 to allow access to the real 68k processor?

bloodline wrote:
If I were to be mainly using my machine for games... I'd not bother with either a PPC or an OS upgrade...

I know you're probably right. But I want OS4. I don't know why - I just do :lol:

bloodline wrote:
it yould be more fun to get a couple of second hand A500's instead and run all the machines at the same time :-D

At the same time, you say? :crazy:

--
moto

[motorollin]

@Steve
My thoughts exactly. Maybe it's to try to encourage coders to either modify their code to be compatible with OS4's emulation or port them to PPC, with a view to move away from 68k architecture entirely.

[EDIT]
Thread is teh b0rked...
[/EDIT]

--
moto

[steve30]

Thats not really much good for software that needs to continue to be compatible with 68k machines though for os3.9 users.

[motorollin]

It doesn't stop the developer maintaining a 3.9 compatible version. The way I look at it is this: Where would Apple be if they had clung to ancient architectures? Certainly not the success story they are today. There comes a time when the OS has to move on, otherwise it becomes bloated (Windows) or antiquated (AmigaOS). And lets face it, computers are so fast now that if you really want to run classic apps there is always emulation.

--
moto

[bloodline]

motorollin wrote:

bloodline wrote:
Actually OS3.x can't access the PPC, which is why you need to have another kernel running in parallel, i.e. PowerUP or WarpOS.

Ahhh I see. For some reason I always thought that PUP/WOS were optional extras. I understand your point now. By that reasoning, could a 68k kernel run alongside OS4 to allow access to the real 68k processor?

That depends upon how OS4 is designed... but any solution like that will cause all the same problems that WOS and PUP had... Running 603 and a 68k on the same bus and trying to get them to communicate is just a nightmare! They can't really run at the same time...

bloodline wrote:
If I were to be mainly using my machine for games... I'd not bother with either a PPC or an OS upgrade...

I know you're probably right. But I want OS4. I don't know why - I just do :lol:

Yes, my BlizzPPC and Bvision certainly would like to run OS4... but I can't justify it at this time. To be fair I can't really justify keeping my PPC Amiga set up any more :-(

bloodline wrote:
it yould be more fun to get a couple of second hand A500's instead and run all the machines at the same time :-D

At the same time, you say? :crazy:

--
moto

Yeah!!! Now that's what I call FUN!!!

[motorollin]

bloodline wrote:

motorollin wrote:
could a 68k kernel run alongside OS4 to allow access to the real 68k processor?

That depends upon how OS4 is designed... but any solution like that will cause all the same problems that WOS and PUP had... Running 603 and a 68k on the same bus and trying to get them to communicate is just a nightmare! They can't really run at the same time...

Fair enough. Looks like the developers made a good call disabling it.

bloodline wrote:
To be fair I can't really justify keeping my PPC Amiga set up any more :-(

You don't have to - you've already got it. I'm trying to justify buying one :-)

--
moto

[bloodline]

motorollin wrote:

bloodline wrote:

motorollin wrote:
could a 68k kernel run alongside OS4 to allow access to the real 68k processor?

That depends upon how OS4 is designed... but any solution like that will cause all the same problems that WOS and PUP had... Running 603 and a 68k on the same bus and trying to get them to communicate is just a nightmare! They can't really run at the same time...

Fair enough. Looks like the developers made a good call disabling it.

Yeah, I think so... It's a shame Phase5 even put a 68k on the board at all... Instead, it would have been better if they had just run a 68k Emulator as a task on the PowerUP kernel and run AmigaOS in emultion.

bloodline wrote:
To be fair I can't really justify keeping my PPC Amiga set up any more :-(

You don't have to - you've already got it. I'm trying to justify buying one :-)

--
moto

But watching the price these boards are going for is making my PPC and BVision combo an asset I can't really afford to keep... especially since I really don't need them any more... The only thing that keep me hanging on is sentimental value!

[leirbag28]

@bloodline

Quote:
Yes, my BlizzPPC and Bvision certainly would like to run OS4... but I can't justify it at this time. To be fair I can't really justify keeping my PPC Amiga set up any more
--------------------------------------------------------------


You are right!  sell it to me :-)  and iff you want.........I will sell it back to you in 2 years........

[bloodline]

leirbag28 wrote:
@bloodline

Quote:
Yes, my BlizzPPC and Bvision certainly would like to run OS4... but I can't justify it at this time. To be fair I can't really justify keeping my PPC Amiga set up any more
--------------------------------------------------------------


You are right!  sell it to me :-)  and iff you want.........I will sell it back to you in 2 years........

The thing is, my A1200 is all I really have left from my Teenage years... so I cling to it with an unhealthy obsession.

[alexh]

bloodline wrote:
It's a shame Phase5 even put a 68k on the board at all... Instead, it would have been better if they had just run a 68k Emulator as a task on the PowerUP kernel and run AmigaOS in emulation.

It's cos all classic games and demo's which banged the hardware directly would not have worked.

It was the best and only call to make back then.

Note: It is still true today. AFAIK OS4 cannot run the majority of classic games, demos, WHDload etc. because the 68k CPU is completely disabled and the 68k emulator doesn't interact with the classic hardware to the level needed. A reboot to OS3.x is required :-(

[bloodline]

alexh wrote:

bloodline wrote:
It's a shame Phase5 even put a 68k on the board at all... Instead, it would have been better if they had just run a 68k Emulator as a task on the PowerUP kernel and run AmigaOS in emulation.

It's cos all classic games and demo's which banged the hardware directly would not have worked.

It was the best and only call to make back then.

Note: It is still true today. AFAIK OS4 cannot run the majority of classic games, demos, WHDload etc. because the 68k CPU is completely disabled and the 68k emulator doesn't interact with the classic hardware to the level needed. A reboot to OS3.x is required :-(

But those Games/Demos would run fine on the 68020 already in the A1200... Just disable the PPC card when you don't need the CPU power.

[Damion]

Yeah, an emulation layer for the 68k would have been tits. AmiJoe would have been exactly that, had it been finished.

Anyway, this is essentially how MOS works on classic PPC hardware today. F.e, a lot of demos run much better because of the 68k emulation (faster than any real 68k as I understand it), yet they still have access to the AGA chipset. Pretty cool. Must be the only way to watch Starstruck on classic hardware without stutters. :-)

[alexh]

bloodline wrote:
But those Games/Demos would run fine on the 68020 already in the A1200... Just disable the PPC card when you don't need the CPU power.

It means you have to reboot, run the game or demo and then reboot. Not very user friendly.

-D- wrote:
F.e, a lot of demos run much better because of the 68k emulation (faster than any real 68k as I understand it), yet they still have access to the AGA chipset.

Is that true? I know that Trance (the MorphOS 68k emulator) can be faster than a regular 68k but do the majority of games and demos even run with it?

I dont know, I dont have a PPC.

The demo you mention is a very late demo, 2006, and may have been written with MorphOS in mind. Not that I am saying it was... it just might have been.

Curious.

[bloodline]

alexh wrote:

bloodline wrote:
But those Games/Demos would run fine on the 68020 already in the A1200... Just disable the PPC card when you don't need the CPU power.

It means you have to reboot, run the game or demo and then reboot. Not very user friendly.

If the Game/Demo hit the hardware in such a way that it couldn't use an emulated 68K you would have to reboot anyway...

Anyway, point well made... One could simply run MorphOS for Classic Amigas... that is Free, right? Ok then!