Hi Andy, and by the way thanks a not, for the abuse, I must say I don't admire people who can spit out nasty comments at other people in an uncalled for way, and I am glad it was edited out, for all on this forum, as we can well do without it.
Quote: by Andrew Bell on 2007/11/18 5:42:55
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Nearly-Right wrote:
So you would have an up-to-date OS4 with access to maybe 4 IDE devices, and 24 bit graphics on an A1200 with a Mediator, THAT'S IT.
I only have 4 devices on my SCSI-UW chain, works fine for me. 2 HD, a CD-RW and a ZIP drive. What else do you need?
It's great for you to have 4 devices on your SCSI-UW chain, which from what you have said you are using with a pre-release version of OS4 on a CSPPC, but what about lots of other Blizzard PPC users who have no SCSI driver to use their HDs, and CD/DVDs, and other SCSI devices, such as ZIP drives, with OS4, and no prospect of having a SCSI card available for them to use SCSI through the Mediator PCI slots?
What I was trying to say about Hyperion is that THEY are the one's developing this software, and have been for 4 years, approx.
So when during all that time, until now, were any of the users told, formally or otherwise, that the Mediator would not be supported properly? Included in that would be other significant attached devices, and importantly the SCSI device on the Blizzard PPC board, which would not be supported, or any of the other hardware that would be likely to be used by many Amiga users, they had been hard at work developing OS4 for.
NEVER!
People who are Betatesters may have known this information, users who have a pre-release of OS4 using an A1200 on a Blizzard may also know, but it has not been published anywhere, to my knowledge, and so leaving it until 2 weeks before it is going to be released as a FULL release, is disgraceful by Hyperion, and should have been something during the development time that should have been said, so Amiga users could have gauged there purchases accordingly.
In fact if OS4 could be compared to an electrical appliance it would more than likely be classed as unfit for the purpose.
I did say . . Quote:
If it was not for the VooDoo card support I might as well just throw the Mediator card away for the support it gets from OS4.
At least it's supported. The Prometheus seems to have even less support, and the G-Rex has none at all.
Here again this is information that all Amiga users should have been told, ages ago, not now, at the release time of the software.
I said . . Quote:
So switch the machine on, look at the pretty pictures , and see how fast the machine boots . . . then re-boot it and have another look at that OS4, WOW . . that really was worth all the wait.
If OS4 is really that useless to you, why the hell have you been waiting for it?
I have been waiting for OS4 to be released so that I can use my hardware on OS4 . . Doh !
But thanks to Hyperion, and the other developers of other already existing Amiga hardware/software who have either passively or actively been unhelpful to development, the hardware I have is not as fully supported as I would have been led to believe was likely, as Hyperion had been tight lipped about the progress, or should I really say lack of progress, into the development of OS4 for the Classic hardware.
Also, if there is a problem that DMA access to PCI boards, through the Mediator is mot supported, then support the boards another way, otherwise how do they work under OS3.9 without any problem. Someone commented that the Mediator drivers were buggy, well I have to defend Elbox at this point and say their Mediator board has been GREAT, and VERY RELIABLE, and the main reason I have kept my Amiga.
It is the hardware developer that should have made every effort to support the Classic hardware, not me, including approaching, and finding a way where necessary to get the developer of the hardware/software to assist or release code that would enable the success of the board being utilised under OS4. If this would not help all parties concerned then I don't know what would. Some people should grow up, and learn to help one another. Get a grip on life, and be a thoughtful being to the next person, as we should all be helping one another where possible, though where business is concerned suitable payment may assist with the help. If this was not going to have been possible, then it should have been disclosed to the intended customers, us, so we all could have made an informed decision sooner.
I said . . Quote:
So I can sit at home look at a great OS, but not be able to use my USB digital camera, or SCSI scanner, or SCSI hard drives, or listen to any music, or even go online, unless I buy a network card that plugs into the PCMCIA card slot, and of course buy a 90 degree PCMCIA adapter so I can put it in my tower. Is this an improvement over using my PCI Ethernet card . . . I don't think so.
You can't expect a new OS to support every pice of hardware ever made. The bottom line is you bought the wrong equipment. My A4000/CSPPC/CVision/AriadneII are fully supported, but if they weren't I still wouldn't dismiss OS4 as a waste of time.
So you are saying I bought the wrong equipment, an Amiga A1200, with a Blizzard PPC board, with built-in SCSI, and added to it a Mediator, like lots of other users, who then populated it with well known PCI PC hardware, such as Ethernet cards (RTL8139 - just about the most well used chip for Ethernet use on PCs, Soundcards - Soundblaster - don't come much more well known hardware on the PC than that, and a basically standard USB PCI card, made by NEC, and sold by Elbox. These are not obscure hardware manufacturers to either the worldwide audience of computing or the more specific Amiga users, so why have they (Hyperion) failed, not me, to get support for the OS in the time they have had available, approx 4 years ?
I'll give you my opinion on this matter again, it is that we were the overlooked ones, the ones that owned all this older hardware that they never really intended to support anyway.
The ones who would buy the new hardware when it was released when the older hardware was seen to not be fully supported and a new choice had to be made.
That would not be so bad if the new hardware, I believe to be made available via ACUBE, was actually available to use, but as there is no licence for it and it cannot be seen to be released for OS4 use, it is not available.
So, in my opinion, plan B came into effect, go back to the Classic Amiga supporters and supply them with a half-hearted attempt at OS4, and see if they would part with some cash, even though the hardware/software had not been worked on fully, or properly, to get the older hardware to function correctly with OS4, as the time had mainly been spent on developing the new hardware, which at the moment is basically halted.
If my suspicions were found to be true I would be really disappointed about Hyperion. As they have not said anything about the release recently, other than this pitiful compatibility list, but have not replied to e-mails from me recently.
I did send an e-mail to Hans-Jorg Frieden some while ago, which he replied to, in which he said that the A1200 would be supported, but he never mentioned the poor support it would have, or gave me any reason to suspect it, which he should have done if he knew then.
I said . . Quote:
This really is a great INCOMPATIBILITY list
It's disappointing, but would you rather find out after you paid for OS4? At least you know what to expect.
I am glad you see my real point, the list is disappointing, and if you owned an A1200, rather than what I suspect you own, an A4000, then you too would be agreeing with me, rather than making unfair comments.
I said . . Quote:
How is anyone using OS4 going to use it with only 4 IDE devices connected to the machine? That's IF you are lucky to have an IDE add-on card supported, without work-arounds.
You only need 2 devices: a HD and a CD-ROM.
So your saying then that I shouldn't need to use my SCSI scanner, or my SCSI HD, or SCSI based DVD drive, or my USB mouse, and graphics tablet? You really are being very unreal about this factor in OS4.
If I have an A1200 with the only PPC board available in it, and with the only PCI capable add-on board fitted in it, should I not be able to expect that ALL the features of that board are supported for the new OS? Of course I should, or I should have been told so, 4 years ago, or some time long, long ago, not now 2 weeks before release.
I said . . Quote:
How long has this OS4 been worked on ? Absolute ages, and now 2 weeks before it is due to be available we are told that hardware that has been around for all this time is not supported, well not at the time of availability.
Frankly it's pathetic.
No, it's because "hardware that has been around for all this time" is now ancient. Are you actually surprised that a new version of the OS needs better hardware than the last version? OS3.9 doesn't work on a stock A500. Get a clue.
Precisely, it's been around all this time, and maybe by modern standards it is "ancient", BUT Hyperion had never said that a greater proportion of that hardware would not be, or could not be supported in OS4.
Besides which, as you said above, if the new OS needs better hardware, then why are they trying to release OS4 for the Classic machines at all?
I believe it is money, not because they gave their word/promised to do it, but simply money. If they had kept their word/promise the hardware/software that makes up OS4 would have been better finished or the truth would have been told much sooner.
If the SCSI device of my card works under OS3.9, and it is a well known standard, then why have Hyperion not been able to get it working for OS4. Likewise for the Mediator board, if the Soundblaster PCI128, and Spider USB card works under OS3.9 why can they not get it to work under OS4? If it works under one OS, then it just needs to be programmed correctly for OS4, after all it's all just data that the hardware has to be told to understand the commands/requests correctly.
I said . . Quote:
I expected to see a fully formed OS4 capable of running the hardware my machine has had installed for a few years, which with OS3.9 runs very well I might add, but to get to this mediocre point of support for the Classic machine is pitiful.
Pitiful? No. OS4 is a complete break from the legacy hardware, which is why the A1 version was completed first. Only top of the range systems really get close to the A1s' capabilities. Your system is more of a mid range machine, compared to the A3000s and A4000s.
So top range Amigas have ZORRO slots, ha-ha, which are really "ancient" compared to PCI systems, which are still current in modern PC hardware.
Can't say I have seen a ZORRO slot in a PC, but not really any surprise there is there Andy, to be truthful.
So my A1200, which has a PPC 603 with a 240Mhz CPU on it is more inferior to your CSPPC, I don't think so. I have an A4000 desktop, which to be honest is a whole lot less easy to upgrade to more modern hardware than the A1200. There is no clockport built into the A4000. There is no PCMCIA slot built in either, which is also a currently supported piece of hardware on PCs, which you are saying makes my machine not as high performance as yours.
I beg to differ, well I am actually laughing to differ.
I said . . Quote:
I really don't think much, if any, time has been spent over the last 4 years, developing to support the Classic Amiga A1200, maybe not even the A4000.
Of course it hasn't. The plan was to have new hardware in plentiful supply. Support for PowerUP machines was really to provide developer and testing facilities.
Well, there's one shot in the foot for you Andy. So Hyperion never really intended to support the Classic Amigas, is that what you are saying ? Do you know this ?
I said . . Quote:
All the while ACube, as now is, has developed a brand new board, with no problems it would seem, other than a licence to use it, for running OS4. Their board has USB 2, modern graphics, and high quality sound built-in, and yet, has only recently become available.
So a brand new board for OS4, with many modern devices built-in, cannot be used as it has no licence. Wheras the Classic Amiga that has been around for ages, with some modern hardware designed to work with the Classic architecture, will not properly be supported by the release of OS4.
What's your point? Do you want OS4 on Classic, or OS4 on new hardware?
I want Hyperion to supply the new OS4 with support for all well established hardware, and software packages, that would enable Classic users to use their older hardware in harmony with their older software while using OS4.
Is that not "exactly what it said on the tin"?
I said . . Quote:
For me, so far it is almost as much use as OS5.
It's actually of more use. It's known to exist, will soon be available and has software written for it. OS5 is just vapour.
Go post at EAB, they'll appreciate your rant much more.
It's certainly of more use than no OS4, when it finally does arrive, but for many Amiga users who have held on for ages, and ages, with an A1200 with a PPC and a Mediator board it will not be seen as the best thing since sliced bread, will it?
I really do hope that OS4 is improved on, but I am really disappointed, and cannot decide if, in it's current state, OS4 is worth spending/wasting my money on.
I would really like to hear from Hyperion about all this, surely someone from there has read some, or all of comments in this forum, but as yet has not been heard from.
They should be answering questions, and supplying information about progress, on a day-by-day basis, if they expect Amiga users to support their work.
So come on Hyperion, it's no good hiding at the back, step up to the plate, and make your voices heard.
